OpenIV shutdown // Official statement of Rockstar Games
-
Guys gameconfig updated!!! waiting ScripthookV
-
Yesterday, I spent the afternoon in Atlanta, having dinner with some family. One of my family members has worked for
Jones Day ( second largest law firm in the world, we're talking $1200 an hr, MINIMUM. ) for over 30 yrs. naturally, I wanted to ask her a few questions
about this situation. so I let her read up on it. she got back to me today with some interesting answers.first and foremost. no, and I mean NO firm, representing multi million dollar clients would ever send out a letter with multiple misspellings and grammatical errors. at $1200 and hr, those mistakes don't get made. certainly not multiple times in the same letter. so what does she think ? keep in mind, this is over 30 yrs of business law experience talking. she thinks it was a buy out. open iv is a powerful tool, her words. and she knows nothing of gaming. the whole thing about the cease & desist is a smokescreen. she also explained, in great detail how there are several steps in even getting to court with a C&D, getting the letter is a "notification" in a way. she also was very curious why any person would walk away from 10 yrs of work so easily. as I have been all along.
she cited several cases where this exact type of thing has happened and the outcome is always the same.. she doesn't understand the smokescreen though.
so, (her words again) don't be very surprised when you see this very same, or very similar program (open iv) back out there, but with a price tag on it.it's very simple, big company sees powerful tool that they can profit from. big company does what it needs to, to get legal control of said powerful tool.
think about it, they bought 10 yrs of work, work they don't have to do, for a tool that is guaranteed to make them money. R*/T2 are not dumb. they are run by very intelligent men who know how to make a buck or two. she also went on to comment that any further work from "Mr. Blade" ( as she referred to him ) is highly
doubtful, seeing as how he is a part of the open iv team ( and scripthook is an integral part of it )and therefore bound to any agreement made. I was amazed at how much she learned and was able to process in about 45 minutes of scanning the internet. I guess that's why she makes $1200+ an hour.so , to make it clear. open iv is not returning, there is not going to be another update to scripthook. this is it. until something new comes along, nothing is going to change on the scripthook/open iv front. it's also entirely likely that these small sites, gta5, gtaall, mods mania are going to be looked at next. natural progression. they can't do anything about private content, but anything that could be considered R*'s "intellectual property" could be cause for them to take "extra" interest. unless you've safeguarded your game, open iv, etc etc, the party is over gents.
I know this is gonna ruffle some feathers, some of you are going to call me names for posting this, but it is what it is. even a lawyer with 30yrs experience is saying it. so, throw a fit, call it bullshit, do what you want, but it's going to change nothing. also, think of it this way. the open iv team has been working, for 10 years, for nothing. not a damn penny. again, I hope they got paid and got paid BIGLY !they deserve it. we've ALL been leeching off thier hard work for sometime now.
-
@KingsixIII This is so sad.
-
@KingsixIII A sentence in OpenIV final post is "So long, and thanks for all the fish". There is a clue? In anyway, other GTA V tools (modding and hacking) were forced to close and "We will be donating our proceeds to a charity designated by Take-Two". There is a big hole, not just related to finances, is about common sense.
-
Nice, but OpenIV is 10 years of reverse engineering.
Rockstar should still have all the source code, all the versioning, all the encryption keys, everything, to make a much better tool to use internally.
If this was an original product, sure, but this is the effort of years of reverse-engineering. Why would a big firm who has their own toolkit, need help from a bunch of hobbyist reverse engineers?
-
They have updated the gameconfig, but what worries me is that will happen with Scripthook are working on it or have they stopped updating?
-
@ikt said in OpenIV shutdown // Official statement of Rockstar Games:
Nice, but OpenIV is 10 years of reverse engineering.
Rockstar should still have all the source code, all the versioning, all the encryption keys, everything, to make a much better tool to use internally.
If this was an original product, sure, but this is the effort of years of reverse-engineering. Why would a big firm who has their own toolkit, need help from a bunch of hobbyist reverse engineers?
Precies.
This exactly is what is making the allegations made above nothing more than spreading rumours and hearsay (at best)
-
@KingsixIII As for 'sending out a letter with multiple misspellings and grammatical errors', keep in mind OpenIV was operated from Russia. So, it's entirely possible T2 hired a local Russian firm to domesticate the whole take-down affair over there. That could certainly account for the errors.
As for that great lawyer you know, right now she's talking out of her mouth thru your mouth -- and I'm suspecting she, by herself, would make a lot more sense than you do. As for your alleged 'smokescreen', I call total BS. T2 is way too big a company -- entirely way too big, really -- to run a scam like this, with half the world watching, just to they can sell OpenIV, in one form or the other, themselves, a few months down the road: the backlash from that would be devestating.
Gratz to her on making $1200+ an hour! But unless she appears here herself, with a coherent and convincing story, I hope you don't mind I'm not all that impressed.
-
@KingsixIII I am not a lawyer but have extensive years of experience with litigation and lawyers. I too questioned the letter, for a multitude of reasons, it just didn't seem to add up.
I am definitely seeing it as a 'buy out' and this C&D is indeed a smoke screen. However my years of dealing with copyright ownership and some legal ramifications, its entirely possible his contract says he cannot work on script-v...it also could entirely be possible that was purposely excluded since its something perhaps outside his scope of work.
Each 'artist, designer, programmer, entertainer, etc' have specific contracts that costs thousands to craft. For example, I forget what rock band does this, but there's one rock band that puts in their rider (list of things to do) before a concert...the one they put in there is that have to have a bowl of 1000 M&M's of one color... If they discovered this was not followed, they're legally able to break that contract at any point.... Their reasoning is, if someone's not going to read the contract & abide by the smallest detail, how do you know they're going to read and honor the big ones?? Its really very smart and I've incorporated similar stuff in mine since hearing about these.
Basically either side can put any exclusions or provisions in and its binding if both agree. I've had some very unique provisions in my contracts over the years, so unless we know what the scope of his contracts and works include and exclude, no one can say for certain what will or wont happen.
-
This post is deleted!
-
@KingsixIII said in OpenIV shutdown // Official statement of Rockstar Games:
@meimeiriver I could give 2 shits what you think to blatantly honest. I'm just telling you what 30 yrs of experience is saying. so here are my choices, listen to you, some random 20 something, who most likely lives in his moms basement, and all the valuable life experience that comes with that. or, listen to someone with over 30 yrs experience practicing business law.. ya, you're not to smart.
I figured you'd go ape-shit when ppl wouldn't buy into your wonder-lawyer hearsay story.
Sorry, mate, still not impressed. Your whole story is just paranoid speculation, and shows you have absolutely no legal and/or business expertise whatsoever. Your suggestion alone, that T2 would buy up OpenIV -- a reversed engineered tool that, as others have pointed out, they could build 10x better themselves, and 10x faster -- just to resell it themselves, in one form or another, a bit later, is just too ludirous to even take half-way serious.
Oh, and stop throwing your wonder-auntie in our faces: unless she shows up, you're just playing an invisible card.
-
@KingsixIII Wow, you need to watch your mouth. Looking at your past history, this kind of attitude could get you banned, as insulting others is against this forums' policy...
-
ahhh a bit of jealousy I see. look dude, if you'd really read my post, really, thoroughly read it, you'd see I ended it with a statement regarding people just like you. sorry if alternative thought offends you. come out of your protective bubble and breath some real air. and my reaction wasn't "apeshit", I was stating my thought, clearly and concisely. if that was "apeshit" you are leading a very sheltered life. and as far as coherence ? uhh, read the comments, you're the only one having an issue with the reading comprehension. with that being said, open forum is not the place for this. PM me if you have more nonconstructive things to add .
-
@KingsixIII I'm just commenting on your past history. Nothing more, nothing less. And how you react to people if they talk against you.
-
@vendetta1969 said in OpenIV shutdown // Official statement of Rockstar Games:
@KingsixIII I am not a lawyer but have extensive years of experience with litigation and lawyers. I too questioned the letter, for a multitude of reasons, it just didn't seem to add up.
I am definitely seeing it as a 'buy out' and this C&D is indeed a smoke screen. However my years of dealing with copyright ownership and some legal ramifications, its entirely possible his contract says he cannot work on script-v.
The thing just is, why would they
A, buy out OpenIV, a program which -- to the letter - clearly violates T2's rights (the part about 'reverse engineering', for one), and has been operating at Rockstar's suffrage exclusively?! They don't have to pay anyone anything: if T2 wants OpenIV stopped, a C&D letter would be one of the exact first steps to take.
And B, Why would they then ever hope to sell a (similar) program of their own, that ppl have been used to getting for free for the last ten years!? Not to mention, piss of literally hundreds of thousands of players, and incurring even more negative responses in the process?!
-
@KingsixIII -- Why do you bother? Seriously, if people are not going to read/"listen" to what you have to say, then take a hint, my man. I'd rather deal with people who are on the "losing" side, yet passionate and are not willing to go quietly, than someone like you who continually (...and for the most part, unsuccessfully) tries to be some kind of "voice of reason". And if you want to persist in being an asshole, bub? Trust you me, I got decades of experience putting those kind of people in their place. You're not doing a damn thing here but making yourself "SEEM" reasonable, but it's a weak sham. If you don't like these post, then why comment? My advice, since you aren't all that bright-- as evidenced by your constant droning on and on, is say once what you want to say (...which you did) and leave (...which hopefully this time you will).
-
Companies actually do buy up smaller companies, in order to either use their services, or to stop them, because they're working on something else (and/or similar). We had a very promising streaming service in Second Life one day, for example: it would let you stream off their own client, so you could get the experience on a very low-level PC even. But then Apple bought up the company, and killed the project: allegedly because they're working on a similar service (not necessarily for Second Life, btw).
The morale of the story? Sure, companies buy up (the technology of) other companies all the time. But the companies getting bought up were legitimate, so money had/has to be forked over. OpenIV, however, was not making legitimate use of GTA V; they had no hard legal rights whatsoever, and only existed for as long as they did, basically because Rockstar let them. Simple as that.
So, essentially, what I'm seeing is that someone got the 0$ advice from someone who usually gets $1200+ an hour.
And then mixed a few of his own theories in there as well. Because I have yet to find a lawyer willing to tell me why T2 would have to pay the OpenIV team to stop.
-
@BatKnight and the butthurt keeps flowing. tell me how you really feel stud. oh and the "decades of experience putting people like me in thier places" I love it when wanna be internet tough guys get all riled up. they hear something that doesn't fit into safe space. get a life dude. maybe your bs works intimidating or threatening the 20 somethings. by saying stuff like that, you've proven beyond the shadow of a doubt you're just another internet loudmouth, in a sea of millions.
as I said, PM me if you want to continue the discussion. this isn't the place for it.. there's that reading comprehension thing, biting you in the ass again.
-
@KingsixIII You still haven't said why they would buy openiv when they can just send a cease and desist. After all, OpenIV was breaching the license and T2/Rockstar are the ones who made GTA, so they already have better tools available to modify it, which could easily be published in a lesser form as a GTA editor. That part of your story makes absolutely no sense. Add to that the image hit T2 would be taking if they were indeed covering this up. If they ever were to release the same software/similar software, everyone would know it was a cover up in the first place... again it doesn't make much sense.
I understand you admire you family member and respect their opinion, however maybe 45 minutes for someone who has had no interaction in this software modding world was not enough.
-
@meimeiriver nobody said the HAD to pay them. that's your own theory.
@bandy900 I did mention "buy" or by whatever means necessary , or words to that affect. maybe they didn't, who knows ? I don't know for sure. this was never a statement of fact anyway. this is a plausible, possible outcome. whatever the case may be.. only T2 and the open iv team know the truth. this is all speculation, based on information a person with 30 yrs of knowledge in these things. read into it whatever you'd like.
-
@KingsixIII -- Funny, your first inclination was toward violence. No, King putting you in your place is quite simple: all it entails it reminding you how moronic you are for pretending to be the voice of maturity and reason, when you are neither mature nor reasonable. I'm not trying (...one of two words you are so well acquainted with. The other being "failure") to intimidate you. You're not the type to be intimidated; rather you ARE the type to try (...yep, that word again) to keep up, but bungling each and every attempt. Hate to break it to you, but you're not very fluent in sarcasm. Sadly, you more than excel (...a very rare concept for you) at being a nuisance. One would think you would have gotten the idea by now, you know with hardly anyone here taking you seriously nor treating you as a credible source to relay nor provide information. Again, wipe the tears, kid, put away the ego, and return to a more pleasant topic that serves you better than you remaining here TRYING (...strike three there, Slugger) to "school" the twenty-somethings by struggling with sardonic wit.
Actually, let me rescind everything. I genuinely pity you. You spoke one truth, and sadly you yourself could not grasp that it was you who needed to heed it the most. Take a hint, man or take a hike.
-
Would you guys please stop this shit?! We are all feeling bad because of OpenIV and probably shv. I think nobody needs your battle over things which are not even relevant to our problems!
-
pretty pls don't let this thread get locked.
A. it's great fun reading
B. I actually pick up new words
-
@bandy900 said in OpenIV shutdown // Official statement of Rockstar Games:
@KingsixIII You still haven't said why they would buy openiv when they can just send a cease and desist. After all, OpenIV was breaching the license and T2/Rockstar are the ones who made GTA, so they already have better tools available to modify it, which could easily be published in a lesser form as a GTA editor. That part of your story makes absolutely no sense. Add to that the image hit T2 would be taking if they were indeed covering this up. If they ever were to release the same software/similar software, everyone would know it was a cover up in the first place... again it doesn't make much sense.
I understand you admire you family member and respect their opinion, however maybe 45 minutes for someone who has had no interaction in this software modding world was not enough.
Indeed, there was no 'buy out.' The very thought alone is silly.
"it's very simple, big company sees powerful tool that they can profit from. big company does what it needs to, to get legal control of said powerful tool.
Yeah, except, big company has even more powerful tools themselves.
They don't need to get them from the OpenIV team. In fact, wasn't this about making (even more) money for their Online business?! if Rockstar wanted to get into the SP modding business themselves, I reckon they would have done so ten years ago.
-
P.S. 100% speculation on my end, but I think the reasons for OpenIV having been shut down may have had more to do with the recent news that Menyoo was apparently being used for Online cheating than OpenIV per se (and T2 subsequently concluded all these mod tools must now be closed down).
Reason I say this, because it's far easier for me to envision how Menyoo could be hacked ('just' a matter of disabling Online check, basically) and used to great advantage to a cheater, than it is for me to think of a particular (useful) ways to use OpenIV for Online cheating.
At any rate, the news about Menyoo put things a bit more into perspective for me, and why T2 may have figured things were getting out of hand.
