Free mods vs 'VIP mods'
Hi everyone, GTA Belgium here
So i have been in the single player mod community for a long time now, and i have always had one question about mods. And I'm not talking about for example the shirt retexture mods (although there's nothing wrong with that, I make that as well) or so... I am talking about like, really really big projects (total overhauls, giant map mods, impressive scripts,...).
In my opinion, those big projects don't get the support they deserve. Of course people can donate with paypal, but I really wonder how many people do that? Does anyone know how much that happens?
So i've seen earlier this week that there are mods available on a site called 'patreon.com' if you become a 'patron' or something. So I think that means those mods are for sale, for real money? I have no idea how many people would actually buy mods, does anyone have some information about that?
I ask this because me myself I am working on a rather big mod, i think it's safe to say it's my largest project so far. I won't say anything about that mod since it's a Work In Progress and i only want to reveal it when it's done.
To make this mod possible i had to buy some things on the internet, including licences, 3d models,... Those 3d models will also be locked so people can't export them using OpenIV, this to prevent them from getting the models for free.
But since I had to buy them, and modders have to pay for licences (Photshop, 3d programs) - at least i do - I wonder if it's possible to make a mod available for 1 dollar or something, on patreon? I have seen several people doing this, but i don't know, i don't think there are many people visiting those pages on patreon.com or sites like that? Like, i have been into mods for so long, but only saw this yesterday... How does it 'get out there'?
This could be an idea: Releasing a BETA version for free on this site, and for the full version they have to pay 1 dollar on patreon. Is that a possibility?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not money hungry haha totally not, but i just wonder if this could be a thing? Many of my friends tell me to let people pay for it because they see i put a lot of work in mods, just like several other modders do. And I also paid for some models i use (locked in OpenIV) so yeah... Usually i think mods should be free and available for everyone, but when things get really big and time consuming, expensive... I think 1-2 dollars for a big mod shouldn't be that bad?
What are your ideas and opinions about this?
Thanks a lot!
Private mods should stay private, and free should stay free. "trial versions" of mods should not be uploaded to this site. This place is already fucked up, this will only make it worse.
The current private mods usually cost more than 30, or much more.
99% of private mods are vehicles, only some people manage to provide good quality mods despite charging sometimes more than the actual cost of the game. Then there are scammers, I remember an incident happened a few days ago when a guy got robbed by one.
It's up to devs or riggers to make their mod private or free, if they decide it should be private they can upload to patreon, mods uploaded to here should stay free.
When Rappo was the admin he didn't allow any "premium" mod to be uploaded, I'm sure it's the same with the current admins.
To make the mod paid or not depends on the author. If you wanna make some profit out of your work, patreon is good for you. But if you want everyone in the gaming community to enjoy your work, you can upload it to 5mods. But there is one thing. If you are gonna make your mod paid, make sure it has the highest quality possible. Leave no room for complaints. People must get as much as for what they pay. Never rush your mods. Good luck mate!
@V4D3R Thanks for your reply.
I think as well that 'premium' mods shouldn't be uploaded to this site, you are 100% correct on that if you ask me. Also i understand that free mods should stay free.
I am currently considering to make such a premium mod, but the problem is: I think very few people will know of those mods, if it doesn't get published/uploaded on sites with daily hundreds of visitors (such as this site). Also, i would NEVER make a mod as expensive as your example, i think 30 is very crazy, for a mod... I honestly am a little shocked people would ask that amount of money for a mod.
So yeah i can't really reveal my project, but i'll say this: I'm working on a big map mod and i thought maybe i could release a part of the map (NOT an unfinished 'trial' map BUT a map on its own, just with less props and buildings, trees, ...) on this site. Then i could release an updated version with custom building models and props on patreon. As said the mod released here will look like a finished mod, but the patreon version will be more detailed...
Though i understand what you mean by telling trial version shouldn't be uploaded here, i don't think this could be some kind of problem.
@GTA-Belgium Well you should at least post a few screenshots and some information about it on releases and WIP section in the forum and discord, how can people know what and if they get something for their money's worth?
My idea: if it's a big mod, make sure it's great, share some screenshots and gameplay videos here, if you can, find a person who's good with video editing skills to make a good trailer. And since you want to charge some money, upload it to your site, if you have one, or to patreon for a reasonable price. If it's good, people will definitely download it.
Alright, thanks again for the replies!
You are both right, premium mods should be highest qualtity possible, and I will do everything i can to ensure that if I make it paid (If I don't make it paid i will do it as well though haha i always try that).
And yes, maybe it isn't a bad idea to post some WIP pictures and a trailer video on the forums. I will surely look into that! Usually I never do that but this time i will!
I will not charge people a lot of money i don't want that, 2 dollar for a mod is more than enough!
If Alexander Blade was greedy, he would already be a billionaire.
Sometimes people just forget the roots of modding come from free access.
@GTA-Belgium You can request donations to support your work (Alexander blade do this since GTA SA times, a good compensation cause without him, modding in GTA probably can't exists).
About Patreon and others crowdfunding services, if you're good and offer polished and creative contents (not just convert things cause some modders offer not refined mods under paywalls), you can open your Patreon (mainly works with a credit card or a Payoneer account, so, can be difficult for -18 years old people).
If you're creative, skilled and offer content with innovation, sure you can get a good support in the modding community (but not abuse in paywalls value requests).
Finally, GTA V is a next level of modding by a simple reasson: A realistic experience (in visual and gameplay). Now, has been generated a hobby, where we can put in a game all those things we want to have in real life (clothes, houses, characters, etc), so, now GTA V mods can be a product/service because has demand and personal tastes involved.
Thanks again for the replies
I think, that it is impolite and disrespectful to charge for any kind of mods. Idea is very simple, You are stealing resources from a company, that has put a lot of money into developing it. Making money with stealing is just too much for my standards. I once got into trouble with law and that experience made me understand about such things. Most of modders haven´t had any trouble with law enforcement and they won´t even imagine, how is to sit in the interrogation room with coppers all around You staring every second and registering all of your eye movements as well...
Other side of the story is the "copyright"-s, which many modders impose. On the one hand, nobody has right to take Your work AND name it as their own (with maybe the exception of making that same thing a lot better and/or spend considerable amount of time for that) . On the other hand, did You ask Turn10 for the permission to extract their intellectual property with some shady 3rd party programs?
What I want to say, create your own 3d enviroment and put your scratch-created models into it and You are perfectly fine for charging for Your effort. Today´s situation is something different - people "steal" models and put them illegally into a 3d environment that they have no legal connection to. Thankfully, there are still good paid mods, which does not have a model "totally ripped off from somewhere", but rather acquired with good connections between people themselves.
I also started creating some vehicles, that I really desire and there are already several of them, but I will NEVER EVER gonna charge ANYTHING for them. That, besides legal issues, allows me much more freedom (which car, when release, which features, WHEN I have time and so on). Most of You (except modders themselves) usually won`t imagine, how much time does the whole modding process require (conversion itself = assigning/configuring dummies/compounds) is only a part of it. Look for example the MB SL R129 thread, this guy is still in the modeling part, he hasn´t even got to the conversion "itself". I have also spent time roughly about ~1000-1500h in zmodeler3(I am a recurring customer) and I haven´t even published any of my mods yet. It doesn´t really matter, what I do there and how good, I am talking about, what could I have done else with that time. 1250h of work in my country´s average hourly salary (roughly 6€) would have made me 7500€ richer. Instead of that, I feel myself kind of "poor", but at the same time I am happy, because building cars by pictures/blueprints helps bring back great memories, find new connections and RELIEVE STRESS HEAVILY!
I really feel, community in general needs better understanding about modding as a whole. Unfortunately, as older people said, when I was younger, "youth is screwed", I will say today as well. I have a very young brother (who is 11) and I already understand, that he doesn´t give a gray s*it about my efforts, he only begs me for the .yft/.ytd
@GTA-Belgium you have the right to ask donation or some sort of return for lets say , your 15 days of work some times a month's worj, that time you could have spent studiying, traveling, with friends on job, watching movies or with your girlfriend, but you spend that time creating a mod ,
Now if u want to share ur hardwork for free like , like many of us do , its your right to do that too. Totally upto you , if u need a license or wat to get back some money or time u spent on a project you can advertise your mod on youtube or screenshots in forums
People use google and the also look for certain kinds of mods, if ur mod is very attractice and creative or simply something that is in demand , people will donate on paypal or patreon etc.
You just have to show that you are trust worthy and skilled content creator.
Regarding ur question how many people actually donate on mods, well im not very creative i just convert cars but HQ ones , aircraft as well, but during past 2 years no one has donated for my free mods yet, which some of them i had to purchase . anyways i didnt make those mods for money, those were created for fun and for the community and for me to learn new stuff which i really did.
But out of every 10 mods i create 1 or 2 vip mpds on my patreon page which will always remain patreon only mods , those mods help me be able to purchase licenses , upgrade my pc eventually and also buy 2 hum3d models every month. I like to collect 3d models its a hobby very old
Over all i know some mod content developers who create mods and give early access like 3 months in advance to their patrons . and those who can afford it, pay like 5 usd or 1 usd to be patrons and get access to a mod that will he available to the public after 3 months.
Me myself i plan to keep free ones and patreon only mods seperate.
Also i offer community members that i rig their models for free provided they agree i can make their mod a lrivate patreon only mod.
Some simply give me a hq 3d model i rig it for them for free and in return i have a private mod to showcase on my paywall.
Donations via main website page were rare even when i had a paypal option available. But it totally depends on quality of a mod, and how much community likes or wants it.
There are a few gems in the community who would support good mod creators but they are limited in number and there is only so many mod developers one can support .
In the end it comes down to this:
"You offer them something they need and they will offer you something you need in return" i hope my post was helpful
and there is only so many mod developers one can support
Thanks, both of your posts were really helpfull.
@HRH : Well i understand what you are saying, and you are right about what you said. I never would ask money for something i just ripped off a game. But this is different: In this case, i modelled a whole island myself, and it's not just an island, but something we can compare to palm island in Dubai (Oh God i'm already telling too much)... I did model that myself.
Now I want to put some buildings on that island, buildings i bought on a 3d website, it was about about $85 for 5 buildings i think. I will lock those models so you can't get them out of the game, to prevent people getting them for free (or only 2 dollars).
I hope this explains why i'm considering charging people 2 dollars for this. If i would have just ripped of the models from another game i would not do this.
@FoxtrotDelta : Thanks, your post was very helpfull as well and it's interesting (and sad) to see people rarely donate.
Also, keeping private mods and public mods separate is totally understandable to me.
@GTA-Belgium I think the most logical situation, would be to disguise better. Just ask for "support/donation" as Delta mentioned. You can always ask support for almost anything, just forget the word "modding" inside it. People will understand it, if they are not stupid
Keep it juridically correct
@GTA-Belgium Aha if you're making the palm jumeirah, I live close to it. Consider spending only for the Atlantis and a few famous buildings from that area. You can use some good quality free models for other buildings. Just a suggestion
Haha yes i'm making something similar, well not as big as the real palm jumeirah (impossible) but a little reduced, with famous buildings from Gulf countries (Bahrain, KSA, UAE and Kuwait). I also included burj khalifa. It's nearly finished now, i need to fix some bugs. Then i will make a video and upload it on YouTube. I will see how people react, and probably give it away for free on this site after few weeks. I'm still not sure about that though, depends on reactions i get.
@GTA-Belgium Nice! I suggest you make a Flickr account and post some screens over there. Good luck mate!
For you interested, I just made a topic on this forum on this mod: https://forums.gta5-mods.com/topic/14713/map-gta-dubai-city-wip