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Directx 12 and game performance "issues"



  • Happy new year everyone, new member here. First of all, a big "Thank you!" to all members and mods here who make an already awesome game even more realistic and fun to play, while also helping out other members who are not so experienced with modding etc.

    Ok I recently bought a brand new pc just for GTA V and a Flight Simulator (X-plane 11) that I have. Last time I used a pc was back in like 2000-2001, was using macs since then. The specs are as follows:

    Intel i7 8700k
    GeForce GTX1080 8GB
    32GB RAM (DDR4 2400Mhz)
    480GB SSD disk
    24X DVD
    Win 10 Pro 64bit

    I have the retail version of GTA V (DVD disks) and I am using an LG 29" ultra-wide monitor. (1080p @ 2560X1080) When I first installed the game in the game settings "Directx 12" was the default option, so I just left it as it was. I maxed out all settings (graphics & advanced graphics) and the FPS I was getting was approximately 25-50. Is that normal given the specs of my system? When I experimented with the directx options and after setting it to Directx 10, the FPS skyrocketed and now I am getting approx. 90-145 depending on areas etc. I have already installed the latest nvidia drivers for my card, but it didn't make any difference. Now I have read various relevant threads and I understand that the game was really designed for directx 10. But I just want to be sure I'm not doing anything wrong when opting for directx 12. By the way, when using directx 10 I cannot set the grass quality level and some other settings. Should I experiment with CPU settings or something? I have not yet tried that.

    Thanks in advance for any help.



  • @S9v9F try directx 11, works good for me



  • Thanks for the reply. Now I'd swear that when I first installed it about 1.5 month ago (1493. Build) there was only a directx12 or directx10 option... No directx11. Now after the update (1604. Build) there is a directx11 option indeed. Not sure why.



  • @S9v9F hmm that’s strange. Personally I’ve never seen a directx12 option, only 10,10.1 and 11


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  • Guys: I'm very sorry for the confusion regarding directx12 and GTA V. Obviously GTA V does not support directx12 for the time being and probably never will. I was confused because I also have "Shadow of the tomb raider" which is compatible with directx12. And as I previously wrote last time I had a pc was back in 2000-01... With that one clarified, my question remains nevertheless: Is it normal -given my system's specs- that I only get 25-50fps with directx11 and everything maxed out? With directx10 fps shoot up in the 90-140fps range. Thanks and once again sorry for the confusion.



  • GTA V does not support DX12 only 11 and 10 we may see it added later on but it may not happen



  • @SLY95ZER Yes you're right, from what I read that's the case. Most probably GTA VI will be the one for DX12.



  • @S9v9F - Reasons for FPS drops are, to be frank, many and varied. There doesn't have to be anything wrong or amiss with you system and, as you have pointed out, temperature is certainly not the problem. At least for now... My lap top currently runs at an average of 90 degree C, but I also don't get impacted by FPS drop or throttling too much (I'm gonna take it for cleaning and grease replication next month nonetheless).

    A few tips if you don't mind.

    Thing that I have personally verified - reflections and shadows are a real performance killer. The instant I disabled soft shadows on my machine, I could enjoy smoothness like never before.

    How high did you set your graphical settings to? Remember that you don't need every single setting set to "ultra" to have a beautiful visual quality.

    Thing to consider is also the number of props, objects and characters that you "experience" in a given game area. You could theoretically run on full ultra in areas like Los Santos Docks, but will almost ultimately experience some FPS loss Downtown or in Strawberry, even if you don't have elevated quality settings enabled. FPS count in heavily populated areas always tends to fall a bit.

    For starters, I would turn off soft shadows, reduce grass quality to "high" and set anisotropic filtering to x8. If you are okay with objects, kind of, growing up before your eyes, you can also reduce "extended distance scaling" setting or turn it off completely.

    Try to take out least important fixtures of the game's visual value and proceed to more important ones if necessary. Tweaking some settings can yield interesting results at times.



  • @S9v9F
    I have:
    Xeon Hex-core x5660 OC'd to ~4.3Ghz
    24GB 2055Mhz DDR3
    1TB Samsung Evo 850

    & a EVGA GTX 1080 SC with a +90 Core & +325 Memory overclock over & above the normal overclock this card comes with. I use dx11. Modded photovision enb/sweetfx mostly delivering a bit of HDR. My timecycle is highly optimised right enough ('fragment.xml' & 'procedural.meta' optimisations also. See 'Optional:' below), although with '<far_clip>' & '<water_reflection_far_clip>' set at 20000 in all weathers.
    I've got Beta Vegetation & Props & GTAV Remastered mods (both optimised specifically for my game though, so not tanking frames in certain places). Looks awesome compared to vanilla but still runs with higher frames (R*, what were you thinking?!), so not sure how valid this is comparing it to your game.
    I game at 4K but setting my resolution to 2560x1440 & maxing everything (no frame scaling) I get pretty steady 60+ frames (I didn't switch off Gsync/Riva Tuner to test max) in Rain weather (most intensive weather I have) with dips down into the low 50's in certain spots (2 or 3 places around the map that my machine has never liked. Remove/thin out trees to fix is a safe bet).
    To me your frames do look a little low. I would expect you to be hitting 60fps most of the time with your specs (although a little overclock to a GTX 1080 can do wonders for GTA V's minimum frames :thumbsup:) & that's quite a jump (+65>+95fps) going to dx10! You're really just losing AA & very high post processing (dof etc) dropping to dx10, not much else. I would get +20>+30fps doing that not +65>+95fps so it might be worth looking into why dx11 seems to be eating resources like cookie monster.
    As mentioned, I don't know how diagnostically valid all my info will be, mine is a very unique game :slight_smile:, but I would definitely play around with your settings on dx11 & see if you can figure out what is possibly eating those frames?
    Before continuing, here are a few things to rule out:

    • Download & use Display Driver Uninstaller (in Windows Safe Mode) to uninstall your GPU driver & then redownload (don't use the same copy if you have one stored) & install the newest driver.

    • Make sure 'GTA5.exe' is set to 'High' priority in Task Manager (Task Manager > Right-click 'GTA5.exe' > 'Set CPU Priority' > 'High'). You can use a program like Prio to set the priority permanently so that 'GTA5.exe' starts with 'High' priority every time (it reverts to 'Normal' priority each start otherwise).

    • Run 'sfc /scannow' from elevated (admin privileges) command prompt. Instructions here.

    • Run check disk on OS & game hard drive (if different). Instructions here.

    Have a look at this thread here also & compare your frames loss/gain to what they have & see if anything pops out at you. They won't have the same specs as you but you'll get a general feel for how each setting affects frames. If one of your settings is off by a lot that might be your culprit :thumbsup:

    Here's my Nvidia Control Panel Settings (optimised):

    NCP Settings

    Ignore the GSync & Fast Sync settings. Definitely turn on MFAA if you are using Anti Aliasing (that tip applies to all games) :thumbsup:

    If you can't figure out what is going on, here are a few ideas on how you might increase frames without lowering the visual detail of your game too much (if at all).

    Optional ('settings.xml' optimisations):

        <multicorerendering value="true"/>
        <textureplaceholder3 value="1.000000"/>
        <particleplaceholder1 value="1"/>
        <particleplaceholder2 value="true"/>
        <particleplaceholder3 value="1.000000"/>
        <waterplaceholder1 value="1"/>
        <waterplaceholder2 value="true"/>
        <waterplaceholder3 value="1.000000"/>
        <lightingplaceholder2 value="true"/>
        <lightingplaceholder3 value="1.000000"/>
        <shaderplaceholder1 value="1"/>
        <shaderplaceholder3 value="1.000000"/>
        <Shader_SSA value="false" />
    

    Add the lines into your 'settings.xml' here '...\Documents\Rockstar Games\GTA V\settings.xml'
    Shader SSA is a bit of a resource hog without much benefit. Set it as 'false' to gain a few frames. Test the others as results may vary. They don't lower the detail of the game so it should look the same but hopefully run a little better in certain situations.

    Optional ('procedural.meta' optimisation):
    Note: This removes rubbish on the ground, small plants, seaweed, starfishes. Lots of tiny little things that eat resource. I gained about +14fps doing this. You may want to keep those things but if not open the file & make it look like this:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <CProceduralInfo>
      <procObjInfos>
      </procTagTable>
    </CProceduralInfo>
    

    Optional ('fragment.xml' optimisations):
    Open the file & change:

    	<GlobalMaxDrawingDistance value="1000.00000"/>
    

    to

    	<GlobalMaxDrawingDistance value="500.000000"/>
    

    Basically, reduces the draw distance for a few fences & some street signs. You won't notice any difference in-game as '500.000' is still pretty far away. Might get you a few frames.



  • Back on topic however...

    I just had a look into "procedural.meta" in the "materials" folder (is that the one?) and there is indeed a huge list of items there... Looks like one can indeed gain some FPS by deleting entire stuff...

    There are some objects in there that I like however, so I plan to hand-pick some items out and leave the rest. Good thing they are clearly marked as "flowers_sparse" or "industrial litter dense" etc.



  • I just had an "editing" go on the "procedural.meta" file. Removed large amounts of garbage from the streets and "cleaned up the town" just like I promised I would. :smirk:

    There is a slight improvement in the FPS count and now I can indeed run a steady 55 frames with some of the "undesirables" kicked out of the game. What is even better (and surprising) is that I get over 60, and up to 65 fps, during rainy weather. ;) With some of the procedurals removed, the fps count rarely even drops below 50 now.

    I could probably push it on even further. I removed only about 15% of items, because I like the rest. But a lot of potential there, no doubt!

    By the way, given my CG background, I felt like a kid in a candy store with the procedural generation file. ;) Thanks for finding it for me @a63nt-5m1th. Lots of things in there to look for and mod...



  • Guys thank you very much for all your replies, I appreciate it and sorry for my late reply. Way too busy the last few days. Anyway, I will look into all of those recommended settings/actions and report back.

    @a63nt-5m1th : You are a geek indeed and this is a compliment! Thank you for your detailed reply.



  • Ok here's an interesting development: I just set the gta5.exe to "high" priority (was at "normal") as a63nt-5m1th suggested and now with directx11 and everything maxed out both in graphics and advanced graphics menus (except "framing scale mode to 5/6(x0.834)") I get 60-80 fps. By the way, it seems like this setting (frame scaling mode) really kills performance if you set it to higher settings.

    But what really bothers me is that the in-game video memory counter is reading that I only use 4331/8191MB



  • @S9v9F
    Frame scaling is Rockstar's (crappy) version of DSR (Dynamic Super Resolution, rendering at higher than the native resolution & then down scaling to native resolution). Don't use it, it's complete turd. Use DSR in Nvidia settings instead if you go that way (usually you would lower AA to compensate while doing this as there is less need for AA the higher the DSR resolution). :thumbsup:
    Drop AA to zero (maybe lower a few other settings too, all depends) & a GTX 1080 can give you nice 4K DSR which really pumps up the effect of the shaders (basically colours & shaders are effectively denser & it really does look nice) :thumbsup:
    The in-game GPU memory usage thing is nothing to do with what you are actually using or going to use. It's just a very rough guide. The only time to pay attention to it is if it's jammed right up at the top & warning you that you might be using more resources than the card has. I've honestly never paid attention to it :thumbsup:
    If you want accurate readings on what resources your card is using try monitoring it with MSI Afterburner (download at bottom of page). :thumbsup:



  • @a63nt-5m1th said in Directx 12 and game performance "issues":

    @S9v9F
    Frame scaling is Rockstar's (crappy) version of DSR (Dynamic Super Resolution, rendering at higher than the native resolution & then down scaling to native resolution). Don't use it, it's complete turd. Use DSR in Nvidia settings instead if you go that way (usually you would lower AA to compensate while doing this as there is less need for AA the higher the DSR resolution). :thumbsup:
    Drop AA to zero (maybe lower a few other settings too, all depends) & a GTX 1080 can give you nice 4K DSR which really pumps up the effect of the shaders (basically colours & shaders are effectively denser & it really does look nice) :thumbsup:
    The in-game GPU memory usage thing is nothing to do with what you are actually using or going to use. It's just a very rough guide. The only time to pay attention to it is if it's jammed right up at the top & warning you that you might be using more resources than the card has. I've honestly never paid attention to it :thumbsup:
    If you want accurate readings on what resources your card is using try monitoring it with MSI Afterburner (download at bottom of page). :thumbsup:

    Thank you so much for all this info, it really helps me a lot because I'm essentially a beginner when it comes to gaming PCs. Well I used to play doom,quake, adventure games like Gabriel Knight: The Beast within, back in the 90s and up until 2001 but that feels like it was a century ago haha

    So yes I set FSM off and I set on the DSR via Nvidia control panel and it looks a lot nicer. One question: Which AA should I lower/turn off? Is it FXAA or other AAs? Because it has quite a few like "Gamma correction", "Mode", "Transparency". I guess you mean the FXAA but I'm not sure that's why I'm asking.

    Great signature by the way!



  • Has anyone experienced this error before?

    https://forums.gta5-mods.com/topic/14430/gtav-exe-system-error-a-new-guard-page-for-the-stack-cannot-be-created-help-fix

    I've done all as listed but still nothing



  • @S9v9F
    Sorry, I wasn't very clear on AA. I really meant the in-game AA but the advice applies to any AA you have set. To start, probably turn them ALL off.
    If you are running 4K DSR (3840x2160 or similar wider resolution if you have ultrawide etc) you are going to be hard pushed to run it with anything more than x2 MSAA & still hit 60fps+ minimum frames. When I ran 4K DSR at 1080p I turned off ALL AA in-game & in the Nvidia Control Panel (NCP). On a GTX 1080 (with a little overclock anyway), 4K DSR & No AA you should be able to get a steady 60+fps or there abouts (CPU matters too in certain areas of the game so it's very case dependent).
    Brush up on your AA info here so you understand what the different types are. Stick to what you understand & leave any other settings at default/application controlled etc. Really, there's no quickfire overall solution. If interested, take one setting at a time & Google for info on it.
    You can see my NCP settings in the pic in one of my posts above. I found that I got better frames using the in-game AA rather than NCP AA so that's what I favour but it all depends on your rig. Best way is to monitor your frame rate & see what difference different settings makes as every machine is different.

    Tip: You don't have to quit out of any game to change the NCP settings so it's very quick to test things. Just Alt+Tab out of game, change NCP settings, Click game in Taskbar & then Alt+Enter to fullscreen & see what the changes have done to framerate/visuals etc :thumbsup:

    One thing that can give you a better frames without making much difference to the way the game looks at 4K DSR is dropping the 'DSR - Smoothness' to 0% in the Global Settings tab of NCP. Smoothness just blurs the image without making it look any better. Waste of resource afaic. Take the frames instead :thumbsup:
    If you do use FXAA (this is blur/poor man's AA) or MSAA (proper AA) whether in-game or NCP turn MFAA setting ON in NCP also. MFAA works so that if you have MFAA ON in NCP & set x2 MSAA your game will run like it is using x2 MSAA but will look similar to x4 MSAA. It's a no-brainer. Much better AA but with the same performance.

    Cheers on the sig. Love the way Lewis Carroll used Math logic in a lot of his language :thumbsup:



  • @SLY95ZER
    There's a few reasons you could get that error. The most likely is that you have replace cars spawning in the game that have a much bigger file size (.yft & .ytd combined) than the original vehicle they replace.
    Basically, game allocate vanilla car size but your car use more & cause error. Even if you set the 'vehicles.meta' max number to 1 (so only 1 of that car can ever spawn at a time) it is still enough to cause the crash. What you need to do to remove the crash is to stop the problem car/s spawning on the streets & keep them as cars only you can spawn in a trainer etc or make the car file size the same as or less than the one it replaces (hard/usually impossible unless you make the car yourself).
    You want to look at popgroups.ymt & either remove all replace vehicles & then add one at a time back into it, testing thoroughly after each one until you find the problem car/s or remove one at a time until it stops having the crash.
    It can also be caused by a handling.meta (possibly other .meta file also) parsing/syntax errors. See here for that one.
    I'm sure there will be other reasons for this crash too. Anything that messes up the game's memory management could cause it.



  • @a63nt-5m1th Thing is I haven't replaced any cars only addons



  • @SLY95ZER
    Any add-on cars spawning in traffic? Look at the ones with the biggest file sizes first if you do have them.
    As covered, mistakes in .meta files can do it too. Corruption to the game/OS/.net framework also. I've had mods like RDE & WOV cause it (any big game-changing mods like that installed?). As it happens to vehicles, replace peds are likely too. Scripts could cause it, test remove them etc.
    It's probably the worst error you can get as it's usually intermittent & could be anything that messes with memory management. There's no good way I know of to target it bar removing/changing things until it goes away.
    If you can find a way to replicate the error quickly it will be quicker to test & diagnose. How long after you start the game does it happen & how often?
    Also, when did it start? Any mods newly installed in the last week before it started happening? Might be worth looking at them first.



  • I remember I narrowed it down to something to do with one of the DLC I added but I cannot remember what one it was :(



  • @SLY95ZER
    One of the great things about the way GTA V is designed is that it is modular. You can remove entries from 'dlclist.xml'/default whole '.rpf' archives back to vanilla & the game will still run fine (just maybe missing a few things but still functional). This is great from a diagnostic point of view. :slight_smile: :thumbsup:
    You want to eliminate all the other things first though:

    • Remove ALL scripts
    • Reinstall .NET Framework/Visual C++ Distributions etc
    • Check RAM for errors
    • Run check disk on OS & game install hard drive (if different)
    • Run sfc /scannow
    • Make sure OS & your hardware/drivers are in good order etc
    • Switch off traffic/peds in a trainer & see if the error disappears (if it does, it's traffic/ped related)
    • Basically remove/turn off parts of the game until the error doesn't happen which will help you pinpont a culprit

    Then if still no solution/info I would default '.rpf' archives back to vanilla & remove entries from 'dlclist.xml' one at a time (or bulk remove & then add back one at a time etc) until I found the one/s causing the crash. That's actually not as bad as it may sound & could probably be done in 2-3 days. The time consuming part of it is playing the game waiting to see if the error happens. Sorry, but I don't know of any better way.

    If you click on my username & have a look through my previous posts you will find detailed instructions to all/most of the things I mention in this post. Some even mentioned further up in this thread (sfc /scannow & check disk etc). :thumbsup:
    Here is a 5mods forum targeted Google search for "new guard page for the stack" that may also give you other ideas of what to try. Have a good read through them all & eliminate possible solutions where mentioned. Best of luck :thumbsup:



  • @a63nt-5m1th I followed all you listed but I'm thinking it could be a visual issue as right before the game crashes objects fade out then back in.

    I'm so confused I tried a vanilla game at one point but it didn't work :/



  • @SLY95ZER
    GTA V is part game, part suicidal autocannibal. It wants to destroy itself. It's up to you to stop it & that takes experience. Take your time, one mod at a time, play for a day before installing anything else, don't install anything you don't understand.
    If you can get a video of the game doing the fade-in/fade-out thing it might help but it's going to be very hard/damn near impossible for anyone to diagnose that error using theory alone. You're going to have to get your hands dirting if you want to solve it.
    If you remove all scripts & remove your 'mods' folder does it still happen? If so, you'll have to look into verifying the integrity of your vanilla game files & get them back to working order before rebuilding your 'mods' folder using the new verified files/archives.
    Steam's Verify Integrity of Game Files instructions here. Google for how to do it on other versions of the game.
    How many mods do you have installed in the 'mods' folder files? Reinstalling the game might be the only or easiest option.


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