Moderators need to change attitudes
Contradictory rules on what is a mod. After the harsh and abrupt ban for trying to make my 7th livery mod even though I have 6 published already, it has become clear my days of modding for this website is over. If I continue modding, and get banned again with no warning, I lose control of my mods. As the author of my mods I wish to remove them all from this website. I will log out and never log back in.
Even though I'm not involved in this topic at all because I didn't moderate your files (as far as I remember), I'll provide my point:
I don't think that creating a topic (with such a title as "Moderators need to change attitudes" as if it was a general opinion) to criticize the moderation team will help in any way, specially when you're just talking about what you feel that happened to you as an individual case and you're not even providing details of the whole story (thanks though, there's no need for more drama) but your point of view only.
If you have a problem with a moderator or any of the moderation actions, instead of creating a topic here which can lead to unnecessary drama you should get in contact with Dark0ne via DM and explain your problem to him, one of the administrators of the site. He will be able to read what you have to tell/provide to him and he will also be able to contrast it with the info he will find necessary to get from the moderation team.
@InfiniteQuestion Allow me to be clear. You embarked on a very ambitious Project collecting ALL ingame vanilla cars, as a super addon. Obviously, we interceded, almost immediately, and told you that you cannot distribute vanilla cars like that (and certainly not on such a scale), something, frankly, you should have already known yourself.
Okay, then you tried to I won't say bypass the rules, but find a way to get your mod approved anyway, adding a kinda of pseudo-livery support for all cars, in a matter our resident car-expert deemed unacceptable (we went over the details already on Discord). And also simply because the 'changes' were not immnediately visible. So, we told you this cannot happen, as, for one, we don't want to attract Rockstar's attention with an all 'All vanilla cars' pack that is visually indistinguishable from their own cars. And while we understand the effort you put into making your 'changes', I think it's not unreasonable to ask of you why you didn't consider the risk, prior to embarking on such a huge endeavor. Best would have been to contact the staff, in advance, and ask whether such a mod had any chance to be accepted. Be that as it may, after 2 hours of deliberation, amongst ourselves, we decided to keep your mod Rejected. And that decision stays.
As for your ban, which was immediately undone when it became clear these were not, in the literal sense, vanilla cars, the rub lies exactly there: there was no visible way to notice your edited cars are slightly edited. Which is why we asked you to comply with our request to add images that show the differences.
Next day we we find you tagging the admin, and posting this. You have that right, but, FYI, it won't change a thing.
@InfiniteQuestion you left the Discord server before anyone replied to your message, so I'll just copy-paste my reply here as well.
The rules aren't contradictory, especially after yesterday. Your pack forced us to detail and clarify the rules even more. Just like in the real world, the rules on 5Mods must adapt to an ever-changing environment. And just like in the real world, the rules are there for good reason.
You were banned initially, but after further review you were promptly released from the ban. Nothing to be upset about at this point. We've noticed you've unpublished all of your mods again. This time we will not republish them should you change your mind later on. This is no threat, just a friendly reminder.
If you decide you do in fact want to leave permanently, you may fill out an account deletion request in the form of a User Enquiry and an administrator will follow up on it.
Why was my reply removed? It was on topic, didn't breaky any rules and I wasn't informed at all about its removal.
@gdfGDS44 It was off-topic, absolutely off-topic. For questions about InfiniteQuestion mods you could've asked him directly through DMs and not in a public topic that talks about the moderators, not the mods.
I just wanna say something about the bans though. I'm aware how rockstar and espeically taketwo is very trigger happy to go court over their very useless game, eventhough they are milking and using this game to grab cash from people's pocket but they do nothing to online modders which I believe intentionally (Why? So a god mode on mk2 comes and destroys your hard earned supplies and instead of selling supplies you just use your mastercard and buy yourself a shark card), and so I'm aware the such behaviour from them is effecting the rules of this site.
However I believe banning people because of their mistake for life time is not a productive or friendly way either. There are some common ground when it comes to permanent bans, for example releasing a mass stolen content, massively heavy insults. but except those very common and obvious things, i believe there should be a system implemented on this site called temporary ban. I mean even rockstar has such system, they don't ban you for lifetime at first eventhough if you drop cash to yourself.
The idea behind a temporary ban is not just an warning with an information. It's also the psychology of the user. I saw people in forum which are banned for lifetime for not so big things without a fair warning. So when you see yourself got banned permanently for not a big mistake, also try to think this from that user's perspective as well. And the banning in this site is a total lifetime ban. You are not allowed to learn from your mistake and make another account and be careful not to do it again. It's like, once you are banned, it's an absolute game over. So in a very important situation like this, I believe everyone deserves a second chance to learn from their mistake which is called temporary ban and even deserves a hearing. Because when someone banned temporarily, by human nature they can say "Ok I f**ed up something but at least I am forgiven. Now I should be careful not to do it again.".
While not exactly be sure, with InfiniteQuestion's situation, I believe he released livery support for every single vanilla car. I agree that moderation team can not magically know all of those cars were modded. But expecting a question from modders to ask "I'm thinking about making a mod like this, do you think it would be allowed?" is not actually correct either. Because by the nature of the mod, following up with the enhusiasm of doing a big project and hoping people will like it very much, it is impossible to think of something like this at the very beginning.
Before my words starts becoming way too much to read, I just wanna say one last thing. I have seen that moderation team warning people about publishing original game files. However after I watch some modding tutorials, I saw mods are using a lot of vanilla game assets in their model files, hell, even using an rpf archieve is a vanilla asset. So I would kindly ask them to leave some tolerance point regarding to this, say 4-5 small vanilla files. I'm ok for not allowing an entire update.rpf folder to be uploaded, but 4-5 files (at single state) should be allowed since model files use even more and can easily be extracted using a 3d model software. I get it taketwo is very trigger happy with going court and not all actions of them are justified, but there should be moments to stand against tyrants, of all kind. Otherwise the world officially becomes a 1 person ruled dictator regime ..
Otherwise the world officially becomes a 1 person ruled dictator regime ..
a dictator regime, by definition, is when being ruled by 1 person ..
IQ had his say and his replies handed to him
While not exactly be sure, with InfiniteQuestion's situation, I believe he released livery support for every single vanilla car. I agree that moderation team can not magically know all of those cars were modded. But expecting a question from modders to ask "I'm thinking about making a mod like this, do you think it would be allowed?" is not actually correct either. Because by the nature of the mod, following up with the enhusiasm of doing a big project and hoping people will like it very much, it is impossible to think of something like this at the very beginning
Not only is it entirely reasonable to ask that ppl think before doing, it's also -- especially considering the amount of work put in -- simply the common-sense thing to do.
People tend to shun staff, overall. That's a normal human notion. Like they want to stay away from the Police. And that's really where the analogy ends, as we're NOT the Police: we just exist to make sure 5mods runs smoothly, and doesn't get into trouble with the IP-rights holders of the game and/or other modders.
So, I reiterate, if anyone wants to embark on a Project of such megalithic proportions, with an 'All vanilla cars', or 'All vanilla peds' mod, please come to to us first, and we can assess the situation, prior to a possible major frustration. And the latter is exactly what happened to InfiniteQuestion: he first releases all vanilla cars, and only then, when we forbade that, he was so frustrated that he tried a way to get his mega-pack uploaded regardless, but meaning he had to do considerably more work to comply with our ruling regarding visibility -- an offer which he ultimately didn't take.
Tl;dr: come to us first. We're here 24/7 (not all of us are around 24/7, of course, but there's always someone around).