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Anyone else hurting to get more FPS while mods are active?



  • @DugiHowser
    Reshade/ENB:
    There will most likely be some optimistations you can make to Reshade/ENB. Often that can be done without losing any real visual fidelity, especially if you downloaded the Reshade/ENB configs created by somebody else (as opposed to creating your own, that's optimised for your system etc). :thumbsup:

    Dynamic Super Resolution (DSR):
    So you have selected x4.00 DSR in the Nvidia Control Panel (& set 'DSR - Smoothness' to 0% :thumbsup:. Just a reminder, always do that when using DSR):

    x4.00 DSR

    but you are running the game at 3840x1080 in the in-game resolution settings. Correct?

    If that's the case, DSR will be doing nothing. If you untick the '4.00x (native resolution)' tickbox in NCP you should get exactly the same performance in-game.

    Basically, the 'DSR - Factors' in NCP's 'Global Settings' only unlock the ability to set a higher than native resolution in games. To actually use & activate DSR in-game, you need to then go into the game's settings & manually change the resolution to above native (depending on how many tickboxes you tick in NCP (you can safely tick them all :thumbsup:), many more above native resolutions will then be available in-game).

    In your case, to actually use x4.00 DSR, you would need to set GTA V's in-game resolution to 7680x2160. The game will then render at 7680x2160 & downscale to 3840x1080 to fit on your screen (& look way better than 3840x1080 native ever could :thumbsup:). There will be a performance penalty associated with that for obvious reasons. At 7680x2160 you would effectively be rendering at, let's call it 6K (half way between 4K (3840x2160) & 8K (7680x4320). Twice as many pixels as 4K, but half as many as 8K).

    'gta5_fsr' FSR mod/DSR:
    At first, DSR might not look that useful, but given the 'gta5_fsr' FSR mod has better results the higher the resolution you use, it may well be possible to use DSR to up your render resolution to get the best out of the 'gta5_fsr' FSR mod without losing any/much performance (only testing will answer that definitively, but in my experience, 'gta5_fsr' gives you more back the higher you go (runnng 8K FSR the other day gave me ~4x>7x performance increase compared to native 8K etc)). :thumbsup:

    Generally, x4.00 DSR has the best visual improvement as it doesn't introduce aliasing from the the render pixels not matching up to the screen's physical pixels perfectly (four pixels of a 7680x2160 render will fit perfectly into one pixel on a 3840x1080 screen etc), but the other tickboxes (x1.50, x2.00 etc) shouldn't be ignored as they often offer visual improvements over native as well, & obviously take less performance to run than x4.00).

    So basically, it might be possible to run one of the DSR Factors, lose the performance associated with that, but then get that performance back by running the 'gta5_fsr' FSR mod along side it. End result could be that your game runs pretty much the same, but just looks a lot nicer :thumbsup:. Often running DSR, especially when you get somewhere close to 8K resolutions (but somewhat with 4K too), means you don't need to use in-game Anti-Aliasing (or at least as high a setting), so it's often possible to recoup performance there too by lowering in-game settings.

    That reminds me of something else :thinking:.

    Anti-aliasing - In-game vs NCP/NPI enhanced:
    I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going with this :thumbsup:, but yeah, if running say, 4xAA in-game, perhaps try 2xAA in-game enhanced by 2x (or more) in NCP (or better still, use Nvidia Profile Inspector as it has many more AA options available) & see if either give you a straight performance increase or even just a graphical fidelity increase for the same performance etc.
    With my GTX 1080, it didn't help, but with my RTX 2080 TI single card or SLI, I can run in-game 4xAA enhanced with '32xS [Combined: 2x2 SS + 8x MS]'. So (2x2 Super Sampling + 8x Multi-Sampling + 4xMSAA in-game) with less of a performance hit than in-game 8xMSAA & it looks nicer too.
    Worth testing out to see where it all lands :thumbsup:



  • @a63nt-5m1th and @DugiHowser

    This is a great test for both of you with your turbocharged systems.

    I can run it at 60FPS or more without any stability issues, but so many users commented crashes that a Moderator wrongly pulled it "as broken".

    Not broken, you just need something more powerful that an IBM PC (circa 1981) and how to install the right gameconfig. :)

    https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/2022-lamborghini-countach-lpi-800-4-add-on-template#description_tab



  • @a63nt-5m1th I will report back after some more tests. Thank you for clearing that up because I think I missed a step with my DSR settings.
    I only have 4x checked and I have the default 33% smoothness checked. Should I check all of the DSR values and set the smoothness to 0% since I have 2x MSAA in settings?



  • @JohnFromGWN
    Moderators have removed the [Download] button for it I think.

    @DugiHowser
    Yeah, you're totally safe to tick all the tickboxes, that will open up the most amount of options for different above native resolutions while in games.
    Smoothness is just a blurring filter, unless you want to make MSAA look like FXAA & like blurry edges, always set it to 0% (it takes far to many resources for what it does, even if you like blur) :thumbsup:

    So yeah, very simply:

    • Tick all the boxes in the 'DSR - Factors' menu
    • Set 'DSR - Smoothness' to 0%
    • Load up GTA V (or any game) & select a resolution in the in-game settings that is above your native resolution.
    • You are now using Dynamic Super Resolution :thumbsup:

    As it takes the act of manually setting one of the seven above native resolutions in a game to activate DSR. You can leave the tick boxes ticked & Smoothness on 0% all the time. It won't have any effect on native or below resolutions, they will function exactly the same as usual :thumbsup:



  • @a63nt-5m1th said in Anyone else hurting to get more FPS while mods are active?:

    Moderators have removed the [Download] button for it I think.

    Yep. Moderator removed it because he/she was unable to run it or because of the negative comments.

    If we were to remove mods because of number of reported issues, then Menyoo and Scripthook would have been removed years ago.



  • @a63nt-5m1th i was lucky to download this before it was pulled. Close to 3000 downloads, the huge majority of which never reported any issues, but it gets tagged as broken because it is too detailed. Now my system is middle of the road and i can run this lambo along with 200 other cars, over 400 addons total, effortlessly.

    So does this mean we will only have mods catering to the lcd going forward? Sad.



  • @JohnFromGWN
    If people who can't set there game up correctly or choose mods appropriate for their system specs etc could actually be trusted to read things, perhaps a notice in the title etc would have been a more feasible solution. :thumbsup:

    It's just people wouldn't read it & would still download & complain. The moderators have to act according to the lowest common denominator unfortunately, & implement what damage control they can. It's not ideal, but sometimes the best overall solution is removing the mod :confused:, albeit temporarily.



  • @a63nt-5m1th A mod like that can definitely be a recipe for disaster particularly if your system ain't gonna even come close to handling it and when you don't have the curiousity to toy around with gameconfig, heap, and packfile mods until you have the right combo. (nvm visual settings).

    When I first started here, I watched a video on how to install and the guy installed a Ferrari Testarossa as an example. Well i did the same and it crashed my game immediately. Turned me off completely from mods. Not too long later I did a little bit more research and learned about this "gameconfig" file.

    No way one car would crash my lovely system, right? Wrong. One car was all it took. Added the gameconfig in disbelief and omg, it worked!

    Ofc, at the time, I cursed out the mod for being a total piece of crap. How dare it crash a Ryzen system with 32GB of beautiful RAM and 8GB on the GPU. The audacity!
    :)



  • @JohnFromGWN said in Anyone else hurting to get more FPS while mods are active?:

    @a63nt-5m1th A mod like that can definitely be a recipe for disaster particularly if your system ain't gonna even come close to handling it and when you don't have the curiousity to toy around with gameconfig, heap, and packfile mods until you have the right combo. (nvm visual settings).

    When I first started here, I watched a video on how to install and the guy installed a Ferrari Testarossa as an example. Well i did the same and it crashed my game immediately. Turned me off completely from mods. Not too long later I did a little bit more research and learned about this "gameconfig" file.

    No way one car would crash my lovely system, right? Wrong. One car was all it took. Added the gameconfig in disbelief and omg, it worked!

    Ofc, at the time, I cursed out the mod for being a total piece of crap. How dare it crash a Ryzen system with 32GB of beautiful RAM and 8GB on the GPU. The audacity!
    :)

    :laughing:



  • @DugiHowser they restored the mod, allowing downloads. Some comments there are beyond stupid, one person writing the rpf is over 650mb when author says 16.7.



  • @JohnFromGWN
    The Lambo v1.1 'dlc.rpf' is actually registering as 638MB in Windows :thumbsup:

    It's an issue I've seen before when people edit an '.rpf' a lot. Basically, once it starts happening the things you add to the dlc get added on to the overall file size, but when you delete them from inside, the file size isn't updated to reflect that, so the '.rpf' just grows & grows in size the more it is edited.
    If you grab all the files in the 'dlc.rpf' & manually rebuild it from scratch (new 'dlc.rpf' & everything), it will drop down to the right size (~64MB total size in this case). Often, deleting absolutely everything inside it will do the same thing, but who's keeping an archive that may or may not be funky, start from scratch = safer option etc :thumbsup:

    Started happening to people about a year ago or something, maybe longer, so perhaps an issue with newer versions of OpenIV (no real significant reports of it before that time). System file corruption/file system errors was my first guess, but that has been ruled out on multiple systems, so I now suspect OpenIV is corrupting the archives under certain circumstances, just too many people with exactly the same symptoms have asked me about it for it to be some random thing.

    Was just talking to somebody about it last week. If it is an issue with OpenIV, & widespread, have to wonder just how many people might be out there now with massively oversized 'mods' folders as a result of it. :thinking: (64MB 'dlc.rpf' becomes 638MB 'dlc.rpf' almost overnight, if we take the Lambo example etc)

    If you download the Lambo v1.1, & then delete everything from within the 'dlc.rpf' apart from 'content.xml' & 'setup2.xml' you should see it in effect (if not, mess about with it & see if internal OpenIV file deletes are always registered with file size change etc):

    Lambo dlc

    Also, if you have any '.rpf' archives you (or someone else) may have edited a lot. Might be worth having a look in them, see if the overall file size matches up to what they contain. If not, rebuild from scratch & reclaim hdd/ssd space :thumbsup:



  • @a63nt-5m1th Interesting. Btw ive seen this issue many times with Microsoft Excel when constantly editing and saving a file causes it to bloat well beyond its actual size. The more important concern here, given the ample size of drives today, is the impact on memory. In other words how the RAGE engine ĺoads the package versus its individual components. Not sure how we could assess that accurately just isolating one package, perhaps incrementally. For example impact on memory without the Countach followed by impact with Countach.

    The rpf is obviously a simple archive container but from log files we can assume everything is loaded even if not active. Still im very curious as to how windows and RAGE handle bloated files from a storage vs RAM perspective. Any ideas?



  • @JohnFromGWN said in Anyone else hurting to get more FPS while mods are active?:

    Still im very curious as to how windows and RAGE handle bloated files from a storage vs RAM perspective. Any ideas?

    Nah, haven't got a clue



  • @a63nt-5m1th I'm going to see if there is a way to figure it out. I know my game uses about 2.4GB of memory when loaded/idling.

    And it takes about 3.6GB of dedicated GPU memory. If I rename my mods folder to keep it from loading the drop is not that significant. Memory will go from about 2.4GB to 2.2GB at most.

    My mods folder, as reported by Windows (i.e. with any bloat) is a whopping 28GB. So is there any impact on performance? Going to do some research.



  • @JohnFromGWN @a63nt-5m1th
    After some testing with DSR. Here is what I got playing at 7680x2160. I ticked smoothness to 0% as suggested as well.
    (With default Priority)
    06-09-2021, 15:43:48 GTA5.exe benchmark completed, 46806 frames rendered in 351.140 s
    Average framerate : 133.2 FPS
    Minimum framerate : 95.4 FPS
    Maximum framerate : 187.7 FPS
    1% low framerate : 96.0 FPS
    0.1% low framerate : 73.1 FPS
    (With Priority set to HIGH)
    06-09-2021, 15:50:32 GTA5.exe benchmark completed, 46706 frames rendered in 354.954 s
    Average framerate : 131.5 FPS
    Minimum framerate : 94.2 FPS
    Maximum framerate : 187.2 FPS
    1% low framerate : 95.9 FPS
    0.1% low framerate : 79.4 FPS

    Overall a great change compared to my initial benches. I'm very happy now lol. Ill tack on my Mods and Shaders next, We'll see what we get.



  • @DugiHowser
    Nice, nice, nice :slight_smile: :thumbsup:
    I would have thought anything you lose frames wise with Reshade/ENB/Mods, you could get back with the 'gta5_fsr' mod too. :thumbsup:

    @JohnFromGWN said in Anyone else hurting to get more FPS while mods are active?:

    My mods folder, as reported by Windows (i.e. with any bloat) is a whopping 28GB

    mods folder

    :smile:, that's ~346GB of backup '.rar's as well tho. Real size ~104GB. Also, I have every single vanilla archive in there, whether modded or not (obvs unnecessary, just preference, predominantly for ease of searches), most, if not all, probably are modded by now anyway. File size increase over vanilla equivalent is only ~10GB (~94GB > ~104GB etc). Much less than I would have thought, given I've been adding to it for ~6 years :thinking:



  • @a63nt-5m1th lol. Yeah i only have 2 vanilla rpfs and almost all my vehicles are addons. I've done extensive modifications to peds and i have a few modified props but very few changes to vanillas. If i do modify a vanilla then the rpf will go to the mods folder for easy backup to an external drive. No matter how screwed up my game could get, i can restore it in minutes which is why im baffled when users post their system is totally effed up and nothing suggested as a fix works on their end. Frustrating when you know that in person it would get resolved very quickly.



  • @JohnFromGWN said in Anyone else hurting to get more FPS while mods are active?:

    Frustrating when you know that in person it would get resolved very quickly.

    Yeah, that's the bane of helpdesk support. I often just ask people to send me the files (if practical), fix them & send them back. Often, it's the easiest/quickest option (for small files anyway, less so if their entire 'mods' folder is trashed).



  • @a63nt-5m1th unfortunately the issues i do my best to help with are mostly due to improper installations and ofc the user is invariably convinced they followed the instructions to the letter.

    When you don’t have screenshots of their folders, it becomes a giant leap of faith on your part to believe the mods folder is in the proper place, same for update.rpf etc and that all system and mod requirements have been met. Tbh, it is a complex environment with lots of moving pieces, not all of which play well together and require updates..until u get the knack.

    Language is another issue, im convinced the majority of new to GTA5 users aren't native English speakers, which certainly doesn't help with problem resolution.

    And very few seem to understand file systems, the concept of backup and restore, and the difference between a reinstall and a clean install. When you make suggestions you're never really sure they were followed or even understood for that matter.

    Your own approach is pretty foolproof and gracious, but for the "user is at fault" issues, the help process can be baffling and frustrating...not to mention the duplication of efforts.



  • @JohnFromGWN
    Aye, it's a fricking minefield most of the time :smile:
    Especially, the 'I fixed that, but now this even worse thing is happening, how do I fix that?'
    What did you just do exactly? Did you really fix it? :thinking: Or have you just broken it even worse?



  • @DugiHowser
    Here's something else to have a look at & maybe switch ON in Windows :thumbsup:

    Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling

    It's here in Windows 10 (you don't need multiple displays or anything, blame MS for that confusion):

    PC Settings > System > Display > Multiple Displays section > Graphics Settings > 'Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling' = ON

    In Win 11, probably search for 'Graphics Settings' or something like that :thumbsup:

    TLDR:
    It lets GPU handle it's own memory allocation (instead on Windows doing it), usually gives a few frames boost in games apparently.

    "Nvidia revealed that the most powerful cards benefit the most from the feature"

    "One of the core takeaways of the published benchmark results is that Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling does improve performance in all cases"


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