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Falling through the ground - Cause vs Fix

  • I've started a new thread on this topic, since the previous one focused on the fix rather than the root cause. That thread also has unproven speculations that overall blame Rockstar for intentionally or unintentionally creating the problem. Who knows, who cares.

    As I've written before, my last attempt at an update was with the Contract. It caused me grief and I didn't have the patience to troubleshoot why, and given I'm an SP only gamer I had no reason to update. So I reverted back to 2372 (Tuner) and never looked back. I summarized community fixes here, but never updated again, 2372 was rock steady and allowed me almost infinite modding additions and possibilities without issues, well none I couldn't resolve.

    However I'm still puzzled as to what caused this collision issue in the first place. So what the hell, I decided to experiment and upgrade to 2628. To rule out any unexpected variables, I did a complete reinstall.

    I then added the dlls for scripthook and dinput8. I left my gameconfig.xml mod as is, the one for 2372. The game loaded perfectly and stable, so I went to the first MLO and fell right through. Then I tried LV and SF and again fell right through. Then I tried Liberty City, using a different mod setup, and it wouldn't even get to the loading screen, just aborted, no error message, no notification, very strange.

    At that point, tired and frustrated, I just reverted back. But there is a catch. I didn't remove any of the updated files except one, GTA5.exe. And of course I changed dinput8 (although unchanged) and SH5 to match 2372.

    So what did I conclude. I still have no idea why we have this collision problem introduced with the Contract and which still persists with the May 2022 updates, but only 2 files were different between the working GTA5 and the broken GTA5: the executable, and the AB file.

    Total puzzle. Can anyone shed any light on this?

  • This post is deleted!

  • What I'm thinking is that the engine changes were designed to no longer load all collision meshes.

    My theory, right or wrong, is that the game script that loads them in 2372 and in previous versions was likely modified to be more selective instead of loading everything it encountered.

    This change would not be a malicious design by R* to dissuade modding, but rather it was likely done for performance reasons, FPS, and also stability.

    We know that the update process for GTA5 is sloppy AF. They implemented a half-assed patch process for updates which resulted in duplicate files like dlclist.xml in component.rpf as well as inconsistent file structures. This is evident to anyone doing a deep dive on the game folders and files.

    So my conclusion is that only specified collision meshes are loaded in the new updates, in other words explicitly rather than implicitly, and the working fixes offered by the community force the game to load those now ignored collisions.

    Unfortunately, if I'm right or in the right ballpark, that leaves reverting or manual, one by one, fixes as the only resolution to the problem. So i'll stay reverted unless somebody can come up with a brilliant script to load them back.

  • @JohnFromGWN I still believe this was a malicious and intentional change.

    If this was to be started occuring with the Cayo Perico update, I would have said yes there is a huge island implemented into the game world and perhaps the collision change was made with the intention of it removes the collisions from the main land while we are at Cayo Perico. and this could have unintended effects like breaking map mods, of course this would still be incompetency of their devs but at least not intentional...

    But with the Contract update, the only thing introduced was just a building .. Maybe, just maybe if this building would have props like the game worlds we see in Ubishit's fake E3 trailers, I would say perhaps to lower some GPU load this was done. but nope, the building is quite simple too very similar to any of the Office buildings. Perhaps has even less props&details compared to Facility and Bunker...

    Besides, knowing that they were attempted to shut down all the map mods in past multiple times, knowing how they forced you to update the game for rockstar warehouse users (Social Club detects if you are using old version and kicks you out of the game), I have a very high reason to believe this was indeed intentional. Perhaps they are bored of losing lawsuits and not be able to control such a massive community, they decided to go internal and modified the game engine to fulfill their wishes ..

    Same behaviour I have seen with vehicles and clothes too. In the past, the unallowed clothes and vehicles were only put between the bars, but people who can go through those bars with either mod menus or glitches were able to store and save the unallowed stuff. and then they introduced the Blacklist that checks everyone's garage and outfit saves every 5-10 minutes and also every time they join online and remove all those items from them...
    Oh and an even more sad part of this. At the Christmas time I was made a very lovely outfit and the only Christmas item I was used was the sweater. Since there are so damn much options in game, it was took me a big time to create the outfit. and then after the end of the Christmas event, they blacklisted every christmas clothes.... and action was deleted every Outfit Saves players had that includes any blacklisted Christmas clothe. So nope, not just removing the blacklisted clothes and replacing those slots with the first default clothing, they had to delete people's saves so everyone gets mad!!

    I'm looking at those past years and I was did a great job by stopping playing online... but of course their restrictions are no longer being limited to online, they have to mess with people's singleplayer fun too ..

  • @Aurora11 You could be right, but I think if it was by design the truth would have leaked out, especially since gaming companies are like revolving doors, employee turnover is through the roof. The teams can have hundreds of members scattered throughout the world and all it takes is one disgruntled current or ex-employee to be a whistle blower.

    I can give you another perspective. My best friend, coincidentally, works at Ubishit Montreal, and you will never find anyone more dedicated or more knowledgeable about gaming. He has told me on numerous occasions about the battles on projects to see who gets enough memory allocation.

    So I'm hoping, at least on this collision fiasco, that it was for efficiency and not to piss of the modding community who like it or not represents a very important segment of their customer base and is in fact largely responsible for the huge success of the franchise.

    P.s. what is really sad however, is how Rockstar refuses to acknowledge, accept, communicate, and collaborate with the modding community. Even if the money is with GTAO, it's arrogant and shortsighted.

    One last thought, think about the millions of views of GTA related videos and content from the modding community, all promoting the GTA franchise and driving revenue for Take2 and Rockshit, free advertising, the best kind you could ever ask for.

  • @JohnFromGWN True. But in a way Rockstar has a good way of sealing any potential leaks and such. Don't know how they do it but it is impressive to be honest, we still have not a single leak from GTA 6 :( People keep throwing thingies but there is nothing concrete coming from any insiders :/ and I'm so damn curious to be honest ..

    If Rockshit would care about modding, they would do so much more money. No one properly paying anything to shark cards since there are so many ways to get millions even billions of gta money for very cheap...

    They could even make what Bethesda did with that Creation Club thingy (I hope they don't do that though...) ( :rofl: :rofl: )

  • @Aurora11 Real good point about sealing potential leaks. Lol maybe Rockstar has employee brainwash tech.

  • @Aurora11 yes, but they might not be working on GTA6, no financial reason to do so, just as Valve abandoned arguably the greatest single player game of HL2, we gave up waiting for HL3.

  • @gtavjamal Haha could definetly be possible :sweat_smile: :rofl: I just don't understand all the secrecy they are enforcing though .. What bad can come out if they could just give us some small updates with the game and it's development process :( When game companies do that, thinking they would make everyone hyped while waiting, many people just losing their interests and even forgetting about it...

    @JohnFromGWN If I'm not remembering wrong, they were officially announced the GTA 6 though :thinking: Said the game is at early development but that was it .. Of course there is always a sad chance they might just abandon the game as well... Ah that useless EA abandoned my Command and Conquerors 2 too :@ :@ Still so mad at at them :@

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