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J**** C****! I haven't finished cleaning up the last update's mess....

  • 'R' did it again not even a month after the last crap update! God I miss the days when you could just 'buy a game and play it or mod it without dealing with constant updates' blocking you from access if modded. Ugh! Rant over....

  • @iammistahwolf That sux dawg. Unfortunately it will only get worse. Time for evasive action.

  • Just have a backup on standby, it makes life easier.

  • @iammistahwolf you need to accept these aren't random events. Updates have been happening every year, twice or more, since launch.

    If you love this game but hate the headaches, once more seriously consider the $15 solution, that's the cost of one burger and fries, to buy a revertable version.

    If not, to quote the great Yogi Berra, it's deja vu all over again.

  • Yea my dumbass just started modding again a couple weeks ago and didn't have a backup so were in the same boat here just rowing 🚣‍♂️

  • I agree, seems stupid that a simple security patch update would brake scripthook

  • @JohnFromGWN I expect the usual update schedule. These 'bug fixes' that come whenever are the PIA. As I've mentioned, it's a system issue. This is a hobby I'm attempting to turn to a money making thing. However, the real world takes priority and crazy things like 'food', 'housing', 'utilities' and 'transportation' get first crack. I'd need a new rig to do any of your suggestions which I have absolutely looked into. I modded other older games, but GTA V was exactly what I was looking for to create animatics for films. However, 'R's' constant fiddling and restrictions in their pursuit of 'shark card sales' makes simply playing offline without 'extraordinary measures' a PIA.

  • @iammistahwolf I understand but don't let your sanity get affected..not worth it.

  • @AmazyCrazy It doesn't necessarily break SH5. AB does a version check, so even if the previous SH5 were to work he still needs to change the version number to match the R* update. Ever notice SH5 asks you to check for a new version when there is absolutely no reason for this reminder?

    On the other side of the coin, R* does add/delete/modify native functions so I'm assuming that fits into the equation. At least that's what I can imagine, the rest is just a black box.

  • @JohnFromGWN Do ya know what files got changed in this update or is it just the exe's?

    Thanks :)

  • @AmazyCrazy if you mean in general, I don't know, it was just for stability apparently.

    With respect to playing reverted only GTA5.exe is required. My game is always fully updated except for that one file.

  • @JohnFromGWN , 'Sanity' maintained. 'Irritation level'...under management....

  • Yeah I didn't see that coming as I tried to do some modding today. Before I knew it or could stop it the thing was fully updated, tried to revert back but now I got the "Signed out of Social Club" so I think I'm just gonna wait it out sadly.


    I agree, seems stupid people still don't backup their files 7 years in

  • Well it's not always that easy. For example i only backup the "dlcpacks" folder in mods. Not much i can do about the rest, because my game updates automatically if i revert (retail version) or does not start at all in offline. All i can hope for is the updates to end soon, and then... well what will happen then? will we finally have access to OUR game the way we want or there will be more surprises?

  • @Effe78, Yes the 'retail version' gives the least amount of options to play offline. 'R' even took away the 'double play' offline. Now you play just once and then get the $#!%%y 'you need to relog' message. I could see that if you were trying to play 'online' as that makes perfect sense. But...'R' can't squeeze f***in' shark card money out of saps if they're offline....

  • @iammistahwolf Well then they must hate me personally, because while having logged in countless times, i never played GTA online, not even started the bloody thing once. XD Anyway i just wanted to underline that it's not just because people are stupid, most of the times it's because of the greedy, petty, blind, outdated policies of certain game companies that don't want you to own what you buy. And it's not because they are not making money, it's because "we could make more money" philosophy. Which is utterly disgusting. Anyway rant over, scripthook just got updated and i'm gonna go check which mods they *§^ç&£ up this time.

  • Actually there isn't a single company in gaming, even in the software industry, that allows you to own a game. You're licensed to play and that's it. Not much difference than when you give half your salary to the government in taxes but only get, if you're lucky, services in return. You don't own the roads you walk or drive on even if you pay for them.

    Am I pro-gaming industry? No, I'm just a realist. I realize companies like Rockstar and their parent company are part of a capitalist society where making money isn't a crime, on the contrary their responsibility is to their stockholders and it allows their employees to feed and shelter their families.

    Rockstar tolerates modding of GTA5 even though it is clearly illegal to reverse engineer their game. In different industries Alexander Blade and the OpenIV team would have been sued and put out of business along with all GTA5 mod sites except the warez and pirated ones. Yet we constantly blame them for our inability to fix our sadly broken games.

    Rockstar did try to shutdown OpenIV, to protect their GTAO cash cow, but sanity prevailed and they backed down.

    I hate forced updates, I hate needing an account from Steam or Epic or Ubi to play a game I purchased rather than pirated, but I don't constantly whine and bitch about it like a spoiled child.

    We definitely live in a society of entitlement.

    Anyway, I'm not a sucker for punishment. I figured out the update solution a long time ago, even wrote about dealing with it, and now I don't even care if AB ever updates SH5. I just hope he's safe.

  • @JohnFromGWN Yeah, there's a certain level of 'entitlement'. But it's primarily on 'R's' end. As the 'customer/end user' there is the 'expectation' of being able to use what you purchased without inordinate restrictions. It is not unreasonable to expect to be required to log in when playing online. Nowhere except in the 'very fine print' does 'R' come out and say, 'Yeah, this fun game we made that you bought we're actually just loaning it to you because software companies like us lobbied your governments to let us continue to 'own' our products after you purchased them. Oh, and they also allowed us to keep absolute control over the game and access your system and take telemetry from your system and other information (i.e. your spending habits and online searches) in order to increase our revenue by selling said info in addition to creating conditions in the game that will play on your impatience thus giving us another opportunity to allow you to 'continue to purchase' aspects of the game you already paid for on a purely voluntary basis. At any given moment we deem, we shall restrict or deny your access to the product you paid for whether you've transgressed against the arcane legal agreement we know you didn't read because you're playing the game....'

    And true, sure we all 'voluntarily paid for this $#!% and therefore submitted to the agreement we didn't know about 'prior to purchasing the game' since said agreement is not present on the packaging or listed in the online materials from the seller.' Only those who've been around long enough and played enough games over the years (and maybe not even then) are aware of all the 'rules' concerning their purchase. We've allowed these companies to 'get away with this' via our money and blind compliance. You sound old enough to remember there was a time, you could buy a game and 'play it' without all these strictures. Unfortunately, those days are gone and yet the 'expectation' of 'using what you purchased with a reasonable amount of control' still persists...though the 'reality' is far from that.

  • @iammistahwolf honestly it isn't fine print. It's essentially the same EULA as windows and millions of software applications.

    We don't purchase games, we purchase licenses.

    Modding is a problem for game companies because it breaks the games, and companies are blamed.

    How many times have you seen this on these forums including this week?

    Dinput8.dll broke my game.
    SH5 broke my game.
    SHVDN broke my game
    Gameconfig.xml doesn’t work
    Car doesn't spawn
    Hot coffee is broken

    All putting the blame wrongly on mod creators. But the ones who post this, they just have themselves to blame.

    The noobs get a pass. The veterans? Well it's doing the same shit over and over again and expecting different results.

    If a game caused me so much anguish, anger, and anxiety waiting for the next update, and it is forthcoming, I would uninstall it.

  • @JohnFromGWN, I've written a few 'EULA's' for my company. The whole thing especially when it comes to software 'is the fine print.' As I said, 'yes you and I know it's a license we're paying for.' Most people don't and also as I said, 'it's not out front on the package' or 'upfront when you go to purchase online'. You have to 'pay for it first to see the licensing agreement.' Only when you're in the position to download, you 'may' get the 'do you agree to terms of usage message.' How many people actually comb through the EULA, understand what it means and how it can affect them? All the one's written for my company like all the contracts were written in 'plain english'. Rarely do you get that especially from software companies. I've studied Copyright Law and still end up scratching my head with some of the arcane language used by these jokers! Where my beef comes in no matter how 'well this adheres to capitalist doctrine' legally, it's still disingenuous because these companies present a product with the 'impression the purchaser own it', though that is to the contrary. I knew it was going to be a PIA back in '96 when the software co's banded together to get this fully into law and in 2000 when they finally succeeded. The 'Drug Dealer Business Model' works great for them, but the consumer has slowly been roped into accepting this mess over the years and now these kids think this $#!% is 'normal', but can't understand 'why they can't just play' or worse, 'not thinking about it at all 'cause they've gone all blue pill.'

    As a 'somewhat vet' as you call it, my 'complaint' is that the updates 'break the game at all'. I can see it (and expect it) when they add an entire (new) dlc. And you're right, I do my best to 'plan for that'. These 'random bugfixes' that don't have any bearing on PC offline SP are annoying especially when one is still 'cleaning up' barely a month after the latest major update. I look forward to when (if) '6' comes out so 'R' can move their little 'shark card scam' onto bigger and better things and leave '5' alone in peace.

    The drawback of being in a 'Guru' spot like yourself is seeing the constant flow of questions you've 'seen numerous times before.' I certainly get the frustration. Having dealt with 'customer service' you gotta' realize, there are 'hordes' of folks out there new to this so the 'constant wave of noobs' asking the same questions is going to happen. You, Rennie and the admin's here have been dealing with this stuff in-depth for some time. I didn't start playing until '17 and pretty much started modding shortly after. Only since '19 did I seriously start digging into how this stuff works and found out 'how much I don't know.' Hell, just now Rennie told me about 'PoolManager' as I'm having trouble getting the game to load after putting in the new SHV. Of course 'I know to pull $#!% out to figure if some mod is breaking the game' because I've done it several time with success. I asked questions in case I don't have to do an exhaustive search. So until I'm in a position to get a better setup and use the 'alternative methods' you propose, I'm stuck troubleshooting what I have and pass on anything I figure out along the way.

  • @iammistahwolf I understand your point about nobody reads the EULA. I don't either.

    I was raised by a lawyer (mom, RIP) and she taught me something at an early age. In law, ignorantia juris non excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not").

    Simply put, whether you read the fine print or not, there isn't any excuse for not knowing the law.

    A couple years ago my brother told me he got a $200 ticket for going through a yellow light. My reaction was WTF, that's illegal? Well yeah, here it is. Since then I've asked this question, is it legal to go through a yellow light to dozens and dozens of friends, family, and co-workers. Guess what? They all thought it was legal even though they all had, at some time, written an exam which may or may not have covered that topic. So try telling the cop, hey Mr. Policeman, gee I didn't know it was illegal to drive through a yellow light. Can you let me off?

    Having said that, the real issue isn't about the EULA or our rights as gamers wanting to mod.

    The issue is to accept the fact that R* will not stop making updates because the majority of their customers, the ones who generate revenue, want these updates.

    You and I and ReNNie and all the other modders, we are the minority. We bought the game once, many here pirated the game (one of the most pirated games in the history of gaming), and after we paid for it we never gave R* another cent. We are no longer their customers in the revenue sense of the word, we are past customers.

    Now, let's get back to the real issue. The veterans here, and in passing I've been doing this for 2 years, are fully aware that each update is going to f**** up games.


    So that leaves a few camps:

    1. The noobs. They have no idea what happened.
    2. The I don't remember. They've been through this once, or countless times, but it's like the first time again each time.
    3. The I'm fed up with updates. They stop the madness by reverting or using emulators.
    4. The patient group. They know that SH5 will be updated, gameconfig.xml will be updated, and solutions will be found - workarounds, compromises, fixes.

    I can understand you're pissed about your game once more being broken, but shit are you really surprised?

    My game is stable asF and is modded beyond any recognition. I have hundreds and hundreds of maps, vehicles, peds, etc. installed, my own scripts, custom menus, you name it. I also have 3 local FiveM servers - none of which give me any heartbreak.

    Most importantly my philosophy for so called tooIs is "less is more". Instead of adding additional crap, I solve the issue. If I can't solve the issue I uninstall the mod.

    There are certain peds and certain vehicles that for whatever reason I could not install - I tried, I failed, I uninstalled.

    I have the same gameconfig.xml and heap and packfile and SH5 that I had when I stopped at 2372.

    You can play around with "Pool Managers" and all kinds of other shit and maybe they'll fix your issue, maybe not.

    But that's only going to get you through to the summer fiasco.

    To close on a positive note, everyone gets through these updates, prepared or not, and you will too...once more.

    You know about gameconfig.xmls needing to be updated, you know about new dlc often having to be removed from your modded version of the list, and that's generally speaking it.

    If scripts break, not much you can do about it. They get outdated as native functions change. If collisions break, then it's a shit show but even then, last time it happened, many solutions were found and shared by the community.

  • @iammistahwolf After you get this up and working again, I have a suggestion. This only works for Steam. Backup the entire directory on an external hard drive. Remove it, and put it in a safe place. Let the update go through. Delete it, then reinstall your saved directory. This takes a while depending on how many mods, etc you have installed. You won't get the new peds, cars, etc. But your original directory with your mods will be ready to go. Or save the .exe files and use them. I tried to just replace the .exe file, but for some reason, that method does not work for me. The game will crash on loading. However, Your mileage may vary. So I just back up my entire directory.

    I will back it up after so many mods are added. I've never had any problems playing the game since doing this. If your game becomes corrupted, sometimes verifying the files does not fix it. If that happens, you can just delete the directory, and reload the one you backed up from your external hard drive, and you're golden. I know, It's a pain in the ass, but this is what I have been doing to keep me here in the game playing instead of waiting for scripthook to update.

  • @oldtimergamer6351 good advice, but it's been shared, he isn't with Steam.

    I've been through about 6 Rockstar updates but I've also restored the game 2 or 3 times to ensure it was vanilla.

    I can confirm, for Steam, that only one file is required, not the full directory.

    Rockstar rarely changes game files after an update. I know this by doing before and after file comparisons based on dates.

    Instead they use two mechanisms to update. One is the actual dlcpatch approach where you add the patch rather than replace the original and the second is simply adding new DLC.

    This explains also the file hierarchy that is exploited by OpenIV. If you inspect the vanilla files you'll be surprised by the duplication and redundancy due to this patching approach. Game checks original dlclist.xml and then loads a second dlclist.xml. A modded game will have 3 or 4 dlclist.xmls in total, and OpenIV will ensure the proper one is loaded.

    The only file you need is GTA5.exe.

    Now if you copy over update.rpf to your mods folder, replacing yours, all bets are off, because that's where the changes live and that's why your seemingly reverted game ceases to be reverted. As a consequence your game may now break.

    On these forums I've advised countless times to backup GTA5.exe to either temporarily or permanently revert. What I haven't reinforced is keep your update folder intact.

    Want to try new DLC? Then add and test as you would any new mod.

    Other option is simply to swap back the updated GTA5.exe. As I've written before, my vanilla folder is always updated. My mod folder only changes if I choose to add, modify, or delete mods.

  • @iammistahwolf said in J**** C****! I haven't finished cleaning up the last update's mess....:

    God I miss the days when you could just 'buy a game and play it or mod it without dealing with constant updates' blocking you from access if modded. Ugh! Rant over....

    Me too as well :blush: but if these circlejerks are determined to go down this way, feel free to exercise your right to play a different version of the game, a version that the game's ability to connecting r* services has been disabled and r* can't spy on you. A version that makes r* game launcher obsolete and no longer necessary. A version, anything is possible... <3 Get yourself freed from the Matrix :sparkles: :full_moon_with_face: :sun_with_face:

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