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game crashes while making map mod with menyoo

  • iam making a car showroom. My game crashes after few seconds of loading the map doing thee remaining work and driving a car inside it also makes it crash. How do i fix thhe crashing issue

  • Two questions I have to ask are; 1) what version of Menyoo are you using? The latest is 1.8.1. Anything older and you're going to have issues. 2) how many props do you have in your current map? If it's more than 860, menyoo's going to crash. It's been a problem since the 'Contract' update. Somewhere along the line, 'R' did something that broke some important capabilities Menyoo always had, one being able to make large maps with around 1900 and change worth of props. I've tried to get some answers or a fix from the guys still working on Menyoo and they're clueless. So make sure you have less than 800 props. Anything other than what I mentioned is a problem I haven't run into yet....

  • @alpah-phantom Use CodeWalker if you want to make maps.

    Much more accurate placings and rotations.
    Allows scaling objects (not all works properly, depends on how R* did the object)
    Works much smoother in game.
    No object amount limitation.
    and the list goes on...

    Requires a small learning curve. A small thing to sacrifice to have such a great outcome...

  • @MissySnowie , Yeah, that 'learning curve' ain't so 'small' but doable. I've been leaning towards it, but the main issue is how 'slow' it goes when you're not on a high-powered rig. Menyoo, moves pretty quick and I'll be making adjustments after converting to ymap. Far less 'hair-pulling' and waiting for the renders to catch up. But up front, it sounds like 'Alpah's' main issue is too many props since Menyoo got 'neutered' after the 'Contract'.

  • @iammistahwolf It's not that big to be honest just for Menyoo type ymaps. Creating interiors and 3D model thingies takes time but just a ymap with vanilla props is pretty basic and easy.

    You can decrease the detail distance by the by so it doesn't render far distances which will improve the rendering speed while working on small to medium sized areas.

    Prop amount was always limited with Menyoo (the first reason made me to switch all Menyoo Spooners to ymaps) but of course rockstar sitting everyday on the toilet and thinking what can they do to damage modding more in the next update...

    I guess since Menyoo team doesn't know the reason either, there isn't much to go on :( Let's see when will the custom ymap props going to be limited ..

  • @iammistahwolf @MissySnowie
    can i convert my menyoo map to addon type
    can u say how to do it if it is possible. idk these things i just know to make maps using menyoo only and i dont even know how to convert it

    my current map has arround 620 props will this cause the game to crash
    before tht map i had made a map it consists of 1100+ props and have made 3 maps these didn't give me any issues i made the after the contract update itself

    you can see the map from the profile

  • @alpah-phantom Yup. and sure, I can explain.

    First download CodeWalker from their discord https://discord.gg/BxfKHkk . You can find it at releases.

    Once downloaded and installed open CodeWalker.exe (there are several exes and each for different thingy, their names are self explanatory).

    Once you open it, you will be greeted with a screen similar to this.

    alt text

    To open the panel at right, press the Left Arrows on the top right corner.

    Then first Enable DLC, let it load (you can see the loading process at bottom left), afterwards Enable Mods. Enabling mods is not necessary if you are not going to use any addon props or if you haven't replaced the props you are going to use. or if you are ok with seeing the vanilla version of the props (like say you replaced the texture of coffee cup but you don't mind seeing it's original Bean Machine texture).

    To bring up the panel at top left, press T. (Also C button is for enabling the selection of objects. You can select them by right clicking, but leave this one for now until you move on to editing the map).

    Then follow the screenshot. When you press Open Files, 2 windows will open. One is Project Window and the other is Browsing Window. Since you are only going to convert Menyoo, you can close Browsing Window as you won't be opening any ymap or ytyp.

    The next screen will be like this;

    alt text

    From there, follow the screenshot again, it will open a Menyoo XML Browsing Windows where you can choose it. After opening the desired Menyoo XML, it will load the Menyoo map into the CodeWalker.

    Since peds and vehicles can't be dynamically added to ymap, CodeWalker will not import these.

    A little side not for this, you probably already know but I am going to say anyway just in case, If you wish to keep peds and vehicles but delete the props from Menyoo, you can do that in game from Object Spooner > Manage Entity Database > Removal > Remove Objects . Then save the Spooner. This will remove any props from your map file while keeping the peds and vehicles. Needless to say, save it as a SECONDARY Spooner File instead of overwriting the existing one.

    As for saving the ymap,

    This will be the screen after the import.

    To save it, first click on your .ymap name (in my case it's Oregon.ymap), then use Calculate all flags and Calculate extends. Doing this will prevent crashing and some props not being invisible issue. Values may not change every time, that is ok.

    alt text

    alt text

    From here you can press that Save Icon and save it as a ymap.

    There are many guides in YouTube how to use CodeWalker to add props, delete props and such so I won't go into that one's detail. Just search for creating simple ymap with CodeWalker and you can learn everything you need for now.

    I will tell this one little but important thingy though as you might find it very annoying at the beginning and not knowing what to do;

    alt text

    You can turn this Off at the beginning for a precise rotation, otherwise it will keep rotating objects at 5 degree by default. Then you can Save Settings so it starts Rotation Snapping Off by default. Saving settings saves a lot of things so I recommend you do that without opening any projects or anything. Also don't save settings while Enable Mods active, or it might keep crashing at launch. You can maximize the CodeWalker window as well before saving so it launches at maximized window instead of centered to middle.

    The last tip I can give is, Scale option. This doesn't always work properly or doesn't work at all for some objects. I couldn't figure out why or how so if you scale an object, save the ymap and check it in game. If it is scaled properly you may continue, if not, you can revert it.

  • @MissySnowie, Nice layout of 'how-to'!

  • @MissySnowie well done!

  • @alpah-phantom , 'Yes' you can convert via the excellent example MissySnowie laid out or (the far easier) method of using the 'Map Editor-Menyoo Ymap Converter' mod. Major diff between the two means of conversion, with codewalker you'll have a lot more work and have to learn the system...but, you'll have a metric crapton more options and control over your build. With 'MEM2YMC', you get a barebones 'simple' and quick means to change your xml to ymap. The 'drawback' is, you'll need to make all adjustments and fixes BEFORE converting as for whatever reason I have yet to solve, Codewalker doesn't recognize Ymaps made with this mod, so you won't be able to make any adjustments after the fact.

    As for whether '620 props' is causing your game to crash? 'Maybe.' I've found this issue to rather finicky. On the one hand, one map I've uploaded to 5mods I know doesn't have '1,000' props won't load on my system now. But one I put out earlier this year easily has '900' with numerous animated props and peds loads no-prob. So, '620 should be' a safe number. From what I hear, this last update broke a lot of mods worse than usual so the allowable prop numbers can be 'anything'.

    My suggestion is to either go the 'long route' with codewalker building from scratch or continue using Menyoo which you are more familiar with and converting to ymap using the Ymap converter mod. Either method will get you where you want to be. Just keep in mind that 'XML maps' main advantage is; they're temporary. When you don't need them, simply 'remove' the props from the database, done. Their disadvantage is; they're a drag on your system. Ymaps are 'better' in that they're 'part of the game map', so you don't have to keep loading and unloading them and they're less taxing on your system. Their 'drawback' is; when you want to get rid of them, you need to take a few extra steps to remove them and you can't install or manipulate them without OIV. So 'choose wisely'....


  • @iammistahwolf said in game crashes while making map mod with menyoo:

    the far easier) method of using the 'Map Editor-Menyoo Ymap Converter' mod.

    In my 2 years modding I made one very nice Menyoo map for myself and that tool failed miserably to convert it.

  • @iammistahwolf I was saw that mod by luck but so many people were saying it's not working, so I wanted to try out CodeWalker approach. Of course I must admit there are many people who doesn't have a grip to the process so if they do something wrong on their end, they don't know it and blaming the mod. But the amount of people seemed quite big to think they all do something wrong :thinking:

    The other reason was I was already familiar with CodeWalker and knew how to make a ymap from scratch, how to modify maps.

    I admit it's a learning but the outcome is far more better in long term. Unfortunately though not being able to unload a ymap on the go is a drawback :( If you put way too many objects, game will always suffer performance impact when you near it. Although performance wise speaking, if game can handle a Menyoo map good enough, performance won't be an issue for the same map's ymap version.

    Something I had with Menyoo though, if I spawn way too many props, I was getting graphic disappearences. Starting with roads and turns buildings to low quality LODs. Sadly even after removing the map this problem was staying.
    I don't know the other factors that may be in play here of course. My game being too heavily modded in a not powerful enough GPU might be a reason as well. Also by that time the Resource Adjuster mod didn't exist. So perhaps that mod can fix this issue.

    By OIV, did you meant OpenIV's asi for being able to load mods folder? I couldn't quite catch that :thinking: If so that file is quite easy to get, I can help too if anyone needs it.
    Along with OpenIV, CodeWalker can also export ymaps to open formats. Although I found OpenIV's export a bit less confusing but in time it's easy to get used to both of them.

    In my personal opinion, Menyoo shouldn't be used to create/load heavy maps anyway. It always had a max limit, I was first noticed this when loaded 2 different Spooners for North Yankton. It's really good for 100-200 objects but beyond that .. I mean, if someone spends enough time and effort to create a map with 1000 prop, I don't feel like they would want to use it only for 10 minutes :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile: Certainly not forever but not short enough to use for 10 minutes and remove :D

    The best ability of Menyoo Spooner is being able to make peds and vehicles with Tasks. Like you can create an animated scene with multiple people and vehicles, like a car showdown where someone keep driving in circles and people dancing on it, similar to Fast and Furious scenes. or a movie like scenery involving peds and possibly vehicles with certain thingies to do.

  • @MissySnowie Menyoo is the best trainer. Menyoo maps are the worst. Unstable as hell.

  • @JohnFromGWN - That's probably a thing. Fortunately, the couple maps I've converted using the converter did what it said it would. No 'frills or thrills' included. I find Menyoo is 'best' for building as the controls are no fuss and once you get used to how moving props in '3D' can change depending on their orientation, I can whip something together pretty quick. I do agree about the 'unstable' part. Especially since the (spits) 'Contract' dlc. I never had any issues with my Menyoo maps until that garbage got foisted on us.

    @MissySnowie - Far as 'OIV' was concerned, my point is 'you can't install or remove ymaps' without it. Unlike Menyoo, you can 'permanently' remove an XML map or 'temporarily' remove/manipulate' placeable props from the map in game.

    Now that I'm moving into making ymaps, I do appreciate the 'stability' and 'less drag' on my system they provide. Codewalker is a great tool, but I have to relearn to use it as I've 'slept' since the last time I seriously tried to use it. The ymap converter is good for a 'quick and dirty' conversion, though as I mentioned it does have certain drawbacks. One main drawback is it does not like 'Map builder!' Large building pieces glitch out when you turn a certain way like the occlusion when you enter a non MLO building on the map, though everything worked fine in Menyoo! I haven't been able to get MB props to show up in Codewalker either. Only the 'number' props appear when converting. OmegaKids swears it should work, but I'll have 'DLC's' and 'Mapbuilder' specifically checked and selected and only the placeables like furniture and toilets appear.

    As for 'large maps' of '1k' or more props, ymap is the better way to go. As is; I don't like trying to build with codewalker. It'd take a thousand years to build one small map waiting for my system to constantly buffer and render everything. Right now, 'conversion' is the better option. Up until the (spits) Contract dlc, '1996' props was my limit and the system ran fine. Now, I agree that Menyoo's been 'neutered' and though I appreciate the guys still working on it, all too often they don't seem to have much clue as to how to deal with the change in prop max. I don't intend to build '1k+' maps straight up anymore. The work has to be done in 'layers' now.

  • @iammistahwolf should we make the ymap maps with codewalker or first we should make it with menyoo or map editor and then convert it to ymap
    so i didnt understand whts the use of ymap

    does making maps with menyoo give strain on the system i use which may eventually make my system harm

  • @alpah-phantom , It all depends what your 'final product' is intended to be. If it's something you want to use for a specific scene but don't want it there permenantly, 'xml's' is a good option. If you're wanting something to be a regular fixture in the game, ymap (and ultimately MLO's) will be your best bet. As for building large maps/buildings, Menyoo's good for the basic build (structures, foundations, etc.) Since you're familiar with using it, you can get things set up and make basic adjustments quickly. Just keep in mind, there is less leeway for prop numbers now so you'll have to build in 'layers' instead of one massive build. Codewalker and Converter are good tools to help do that. Also keep in minde the learning curve/limitations I mentioned for using either. There's no 'set way' for getting your builds done. All these mods are just a means to an end to get what you want into the game. Figure out which is the best workaround that will let you build what you want with the least amount of hassle one both you and your rig.

    And yeah, xml's do cause 'strain' on your system depending on how robust your rig is. If you've got $#!%tons of video and PC RAM with multicored GPU/CPU's, they won't 'strain' your system much, but crashes due to instability will be a PIA. If you're like most of us and running a modest rig, yes game crashes will cause issues with the game itself and cause problems with your rig. But that was the risk anyway when we chose to go 'beyond vanilla'. Recognize, there are limits and work with them....

  • @alpah-phantom Like I said, for only 50-60 props that you wish to use temporarily, go with Menyoo. Anything above that should be ymap.

    Well of course Menyoo gives strain on the system. Menyoo Spooner maps itself is a lot heavier in performance compared to ymap. Aside from that, when you use Menyoo, you have your PC load the entire game, LODs, peds, cars, scenarios, scripts, events everything... CodeWalker only loading the map at the selected LOD type and that would be it. Which one do you think would be better in performance?

    I don't know are we talking here for nothing .. I have explained all this already haven't you reading?

    As long as you don't have to unload a map while still in game, CodeWalker is the best option. It's not that difficult to create a custom ymaps folder, mark that pathway to favorites, then just delete the ymap you don't want anymore. It won't take your 5 seconds to delete a ymap...

    I have checked your mods, galaxy 210 and Omega Car Dealership mods are too heavy as Menyoo. Mario Go Kart isn't too heavy, although the reason behind this is despite still having too many props, they are pretty much all the same props.

    Spawning 10 same props isn't same as spawning 10 different props. Although the amount of same props still adds up to memory load, just the impact will be less. Because game engine can utilize the same textures same models on everything, only the collisions will be counted towards (pretty much).

    So while doing calculations, unique props have the heaviest impact. But that doesn't mean spawning lots of same props and keep stacking them together will go easy on your GPU. That's why those 2 maps of yours are still heavy while Mario Kart lightweight.

    and to be honest, there wouldn't be a cruicial reason to unload a map on the go anyway unless you have to use different maps on the same location... At that point you may want to avoid restarting your game and just unloading the existing one, then loading a new one on it's place. Aside from that, there isn't any reason to unload a map on the go.

    @iammistahwolf By the by, it seems like your render issue might be some settings in CodeWalker. You can try doing a backup of it's config file and starting new. Also seriously, please try to lower Detail Distance. While making a ymap, you don't have to see all the way through the Hollywood Sign. It seriously doesn't take long at all to render at 0.4 - 0.5 distance setting. But if it's still too slow for you, you can lowr the Max LOD as well.

    Here is a comparison and where you can change those settings;

    The default settings, 1.0 Detail Distance and ORPHANHD LOD (the highest LOD) - 76 FPS

    alt text

    Detail Distance 0.5 - Highest LOD - 144 FPS (My monitor's refresh rate, meaning it can't go above this, I have G-Sync enabled)
    It can be lowered even more to 0.3, the light lamps disappear though, not sure would this be a problem while making a map since you need a flat and open surface but still, I stopped it at 0.5 regardless

    alt text

    This time Max LOD set to LOD - Detail Distance 1.0 - 112 FPS

    alt text

    Which you can easily lower the Max LOD to SLOD2 level and combine this with Detail Distance 0.4 and if your monitor would allow, you would get over 300-400 FPS. Now imagine the render speed of this compared to game. Even when I keep rotating the mouse like haywire it takes miliseconds to render.

    There is only one small issue with SLODs. When switched to them, the ground will also turn to LOD meaning it will look a few inches over compared to actual ground level, well, since Rockstar didn't bothered themselves by leveling them same height. However, it still isn't an issue. Once you are done, switch back the ORPHANHD LOD, select all the props and lower them to the correct level :thumbsup_tone1:

    The other part is, if keeping multiple ymaps is being heavy and you don't want to remove, you can also tweak the LOD Dist of props. CodeWalker spawns the props with 200 Distance by default. But you can easily lower this, inside interiors even more. Which honestly it is much more useful and beneficial inside the interiors for 2 main reasons;

    1. Even with a high distance there is only so much you can see from outside anyway.
    2. Interiors always have more objects compared to outsides.

    Think of the ceiling lights in here;
    or all the cluttering inside (at left side)

    Their LOD Dist can be lowered between 30 to 50. The best thingy of this while doing this with CodeWalker, CW renders the LOD Dist dynamically, so you can check do the props still visible from your desired distance.

    This is where you can adjust it;

    alt text

    Think it from any aspect you wish, making a map with CodeWalker compared to Menyoo is;

    It just may need some adjustments and personal tweaks.

  • @MissySnowie , Ha! You illustrated perfectly what I mentioned about the 'learning curve differences'. And thank you for the detailed tutorial as I would never have figured all that out on my own. Though there are numerous online 'tut's', they're all over the place and it takes immense patience to find 'specific' info.

  • @iammistahwolf You are right. Many tutorials are just randomized videos made by people doesn't know the "T" of Tutorial unfortunately :(

    If you are lucky enough, you can find the shards and pieces of some useful info and combine them together to understand what actually needs to be done. The rest, you need to fiddle with things here and there and see what they do. Eventually you getting some idea how the thingy works essentially but there are still many things to learn even for me :slight_smile:

  • @MissySnowie , I used to make a living producing training videos and presentations. And you're correct, the vast majority 'don't know the T in training' more like the 'S' in 'sucking' at how to both present and organize proper and informative instruction. I seriously blame the big software co's like Adobe and others for abandoning actual training manuals for 'online learning.' Sure, it's far cheaper for them without the cost of making printed material. I wasn't fond of their 'e-manuals' either. YouTube didn't help either, for though on the surface it's 'egalitarian' premise that allows everyone to put out info, the amount of time and effort it takes to find good sources outweighs simply picking up a book....

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