[VEHICLE][RELEASED/WIP] Sim-cade Handling and Ultimate Sound Swap
Hi! Same feedback for you as on Killatomate's handling mod:
Not sure if it's possible, but can all vehicles' lateral grip be increased with a simple formula? When disabling the auto-countersteer/steering assist, it's really hard to keep the car on the road.
Thing is, with your mod it's even more pronounced Playing with a controller is fine since R* has this nice stability control thing, but if I disable that (for 1:1 steering input), the car begins sliding so incredibly fast. It could also be my mod/physics not reacting to physics quick enough or the fact that I'm not using proper data for force feedback. The problem is my steering wheel doesn't snap to countersteer quickly enough, though I feel I can't take most corners at speeds I do irl. Admittedly I've only driven FWD and AWD vehicles.
@ikt there is a few value that can increase lateral grip (i think it was maxtraction curve and lateral-something, along with tractionbias and steering angle -don't have pc with me now...), but not sure if it will fix the slow steering response problem since it works fine with controller (have not hooked up my wheel in awhile). If you are using the g27, then it could be a physical limitation, since I have one myself and for certain games (like FH3), i can't catch any slide when it is set to the full 900 degrees turning, and can barely manage it at around 360-480 degrees, with 240 feeling good, but slightly too quick to respond. Try reducing your max steering degrees using the logitech profiler, and let me know if that works.
I have (semi-variable!) soft lock built into my mod, so that part is covered. Also yeah, drifting isn't easy, but the lateral force when not having stability control is quite low.
I should probably update my realtime handling editor so it more reliably shows G-forces.
@ikt I'll give it a go with my g27 when I get the chance and see what's going on. What steering angle are you using? Also, how are you controlling FWD slide/oversteer? cause counter steering is part of it, but punching the throttle should straighten out the vehicle, i.e. recover from slide
Hello Chang, I would like to report that I think I find a sweet spot for the Suspension trying to get a realistic feel and have the car actually go up in a good fashion on obstacles rather than glitching.
Just keep in mind the following are good for muscle cars and old cars in general, since that's what I play with mostly.
So, first I set suspension to around 7.0-7.5, then Damp to 2.3-2.6 for Comp and 2.2-2.4 for rebound (other similar values should work too, then fine tuned for each model)
After this is done, to compensate for the increased suspension force the Roll Centre should be lowered by about 0.10-0.20 or else the car won't lean much in curves anymore. Lowering by more than this value seems to not affect lean but will make the car flip at higher speeds, therefore a high suspension force seems unrecommended, unless it's a low sportscar.
Third consideration, Suspension Upper Limit should be 0.12 as a minimum to prevent "glitching" on obstacles, 0.11 or 0.10 could work depending on the car but I can't guarantee it'll work as intended.
That's all, I suggest you take a look and see how it feels for you or what you think about it
@GreenAid thanks for the report, I'll definitely give it a go when I got sometime, gotten busy at work again...
And most of the changes you mentioned were made in the current released version (like suspension force, dampening forces, and roll), but probably not to that degree I don't think (gotta check). Have you tried my latest version yet? If not, do try it and report back as I think I've hit a decent sweet spot emulating what I see and feel from games like FH3.
I did try it, the changes I made are based on that
Some cars still feel like they glitch on obstacles, idk if it's just me. Also I deleted some "downforce" entries that you had set for old cars since it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. And together with that, it might contribute to the glitch at high speeds since the car is lowered.
@GreenAid ahh I see, well I've increased all the parameters for a version I'm about to test, but don't want to increase too much as that will throw other vehicles off balance, since it would be weird if muscle had harder suspension than some sports cars...
As for the downforce, I think I've added them based on the presence of spoilers/trunk spoilers (and others thatI think ought to have a spoiler) and front/rear splitters/diffusers, most shouldn't have it but some do. Which car did you remove the downforce from?
@chang63 Uhhh.... stuff like the Blade I think.
And don't worry about making muscle cars' suspension stronger, if you reduce damp it will still be "soft" but will more properly bounce up on obstacles, I think.
Do you use the RealTime Handling editor mod? I used that to fine tune cars without changing data or having to restart game every time.
@GreenAid yeah, I've used it extensively since V3.0, but there are some values where there are no effects until I restart, like the mass xyz coordinates. Did the blade have downforce, don't really remember... but I got plans for the blade to make it a true gasser dragster, so I will go over it eventually.
@chang63 Ah I see, and yes those are some problem that can be annoying
Btw can I ask you a thing, maybe you know more than me about them, the vecInertiaMultiplier and DriveInertia, do you know how they affect the car? Cause I tried playing around with those and it didn't seem to do anything noticeable.
@GreenAid "DriveInertia" (under InitialDriveForce) basically determines how fast the car can rev (how responsive it is to throttle maybe is better way to put it?), or what I call the weight of your flywheel. For example, in ikt's manual tranny on sequential mode the upshifts occur instantaneously once button is pressed since it does not correlate to "ClutchChangeRateScaleUpShift." However, you can "tune" how the shift feels based on how heavy the "flywheel" is, which is the "DriveInertia." So for cars with DCTs and quick shifting autos in their RL counterpart, I increased the value to 2.0-3.0 to emulate the quick rpm drop after shifting (the "fart" you sometimes hear for some DCT vehicle when upshifting, like the VW mk7 GTI with DSG I had before). For slower, manual tranny cars in their RL counterpart, reducing the value to <1.0 will make the rpm take longer to drop, making the shifts feel longer to get to next gear, even though it really doesn't (unless your not using ikt's manual tranny mod). Reducing it also reduces the engine's response to input to a certain degree.
If you want to really feel the difference, drive the T20 or TurismoR (value of ~3.0) from my mod (latest) since they have DCTs in RL and compare it to a Futo or Turismo Classic, or any muscle car (SabreGT, etc.) (value of ~1.0) since they have a manual tranny in RL, both using ikt's manual tranny in sequential mode and you will know what I mean. The shifts also "sounds" very different and quite distinct, but the only problem with raising the value too high is the rpms jitters slightly when off-throttle and coasting, but thats not too big of a problem imo. Hopefully this helps.
As for the "vecInertiaMultiplier," I haven't really tinkered with it, since I got decent satisfactory results without really editing the values, so not really sure at this moment on what it does yet... Need to play with the values some more in order to see the difference.
Hmmm.. Interesting info, thanks for that, guess I'll just leave it at around 0.8 then, I guess.
Progress Update with the new Gunrunning DLC as of now:
For Sim-cade Handling:
- New suspension and grip levels have been re-tuned, giving it slightly more realistic feel, changing the ratio to 40% realism and 60% arcade as oppose to the 30% realism and 70% arcade in the previous versions (feels similar to Forza Motorsport games rather than FH3 now, especially on the SPA Francorchamps circuit).
- About 25% done with updating all the new vehicles with their appropriate specifications.
- Still fine-tuning some of the drift assist settings.
- Making other miscellaneous tweaks here and there (like brake pressure, bias, etc.).
- With these changes, it feels like stability control is disabled and sudden oversteer/braking instability becomes a possibility, reducing that "on-rail" feeling mid-corner, though some car vehicles still feel that way mostly because of the way it is set up (either understeer or high grip).
For Ultimate Vehicle Sound Swap:
- Made several swaps with new vehicle sounds, like making XA-21 have electric sound (and equivalent handling) since the Jaguar C-X75 was meant to have 4 electric motors rather than a V8, which the film had.
- Still need to make the OIV. package work since haven't touched it in awhile.
Time of release:
Unknown as of now due to many things happening with life and other miscellaneous challenges.
Progress Update I guess...
For Sim-cade Handling:
- Gunrunning DLC vehicles are mostly complete.
- Didn't realize how screwed up the downforce was after update, so will most likely have to revisit some vehicles that has downforce (which, luckily, there weren't too many that relied on the downforce value, only track focused cars, some hypercars/supers, and racecars should be affected, rest should be ok, but still testing)
- Finally, just generally driving around different road/track mods to sample the handling of each vehicle class, cause its kind of fun just driving around and helps identify bugs and such (Will try to go through every single vehicle, but I can't guarantee it...).
For Ultimate Sound Swap:
- It's more or less finished, just have to re-compile to new OIV. pack and hopefully it fixes the error from previous version.
It's been awhile since I've posted a progress update, but after further countless hours of retweaking, here it is:
For Sim-cade handling:
- after several more tweaks to grip and suspension, it is mostly complete for next update and includes all current DLC vehicles.
- only a few finishing touches before it is complete.
- Interesting note: on the Nordschleife (part of Race Map mod), got a 7:05 with the pfister811 (RL Porsche 918), not terribly bad I guess with my rather amateurish driving and semi-realistic handling, since the record was 6:57, so it's within ballpark, but not sure if track is within scale, though it feels good. However, I did notice a glitch on the top speed due to all the bumps from the track mod: instead of reaching to about 217 mph like I tested on a flat road (6km straight track mod), it jumps by about 30-60 mph more, being around 270 mph on the downhill section of the Ring. This behavior is also consistent (~30-60 mph higher than specified top speed) with other vehicles, though it affects powerful vehicles more so. Not sure if I can fix it without another major overhaul (not feeling it, but maybe in the future...), so the trick to keeping it at the real speed is to not shift to top gear in the straights, so it will set a hard limit on the top speed (for the pfister811, 5th gear will limit speed at 217, 6th limits to 230 I believe for some odd reason, and 7th goes flat out to 270-280 mph if using IKT's manual transmission mod), though it could be fun to see insane top speeds . Alternatively, you can shift to top gear and just ease off the gas when rpms are maxed out to simulate reaching top speed...
Things to do before release:
- need to do some finishing checks and tweaks, then make short documentation and should be out sometime within the following 2 weeks depending on time availability.
- test with my g27 for stability issues.
For Ultimate Sound Swap:
- finished for awhile already and made some more additional changes here and there.
- did not have time to re-compiled the OIV. Package, so will probably release the manual install version first, then update it with a working OIV. Install package later in the future.
Things to do before release:
- make both vanilla compatible and WoV compatible versions (latest).
- make an OIV. Pack for it.
ETA for release:
- expect an update within the next 2-3 weeks for both mods.
On a side note:
For those with a G27, what is the cheapest method to prevent the foot pedals from moving when doing something that involves lots of high pressure inputs from both feet (like heel-toe downshifts)? I secured mines with duct tape on both sides before, it works to some extent, but it starts ripping off after awhile, and leaves terrible residue on the floor (hardwood floor btw). Can't push it up against the wall either cause it'll stress the cable, and rise up with the wall, not to mention move side-to-side if pressing clutch and accelerator at different times... I've been thinking of buying some high friction pads, but don't know which one to get and afraid it'll be useless like the original pads it came with once its covered with dust... any suggestions?
@chang63 Sounds great! I'm exited about the Cheetah Classic handling.
Just wanted to ask if you'd also improve the handling of the bikes a little bit. Accelerating & Braking is fine, but steering at slow speeds is too direct, too much vanilla-ish.
@chang63 I don´t know anything about Your room, but you can always lay a carpet. Carpet is fixed by your table and then you can put pedals on the carpet. They shouldn´t move much, as G27 also has a special fixator, which holds them on carpet.
I, myself, play on G25...
@prince_linus feels ok, though tbh, kinda made adjustments mostly with cars, with minor adjustments to the bikes from initial development of the current update. Was planning to recheck each vehicle class for bugs as part of the finishing checks that I'd mentioned before, but will definitely re-check it more thoroughly, since it may work for some superbikes, but not choppers, etc.
@HRH Yeah, I thought of that at one point, but kind of forgotten about it, thanks for reminding. But I was still thinking of maybe just getting friction pads, since they are cheaper than a carpet and won't get caught by my office chair when I'm moving about...
Any else have experience with some of the friction pads?
@HRH ok, the carpet idea works, got a cheap one lying around n no more sliding
Since a new DLC by Rockstar is on the horizon (August 29 I think), I will try to aim for a release within the next few days. Been struggling with how to reduce the snap oversteer but also not locking down the rear with tons of grip and trying to improve brakes on certain cars, sort of found a happy medium I guess, so will probably release that version and if I'm not satisfy with it, I'll upload another update at another time.
Sound swap is finished, but needs the vanilla version and OIV. installer pack.
Ideally, I would like to release updates to both mods before the DLC hits, but not 100% certain since this weekend looks kind of busy...
@chang63 just as I thought but few words about sounds. I am definately a "melomane" and once I took a sheet of paper beside me and I just tested all the vehicle sounds in the game and properly categorized every one of them into different groups. I thought of rewriting that list into computer and release as a tutorial or smth...
@HRH That would be great!