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[Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine



  • @FoxtrotDelta said in [Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine:

    you should use proprietary formats that cannot be extracted, exported, or decompiled without reverse engineering.

    I suppose in some sense, that would apply. Without OpenIV, would users be able to get at those models by simple file access?



  • @FoxtrotDelta @LeeC2202 I do understand, and thanks for pointing out, but the risk is mine. Besides, if they did sue me, they'd spend more on legal fees than they would get in a settlement.



  • @LeeC2202 They could probably get access to the models, but they couldn't open them and edit them.



  • @nathanjamesddg151 You're right, I suspect the worst that would actually happen is they would file a cease and desist to have it removed. If Nintendo sued everyone they've ever gone after, the whole Nintendo fanbase would be in court by now. :D

    As I said, I am sorry for dragging this down a dark alley... old habits, bad habits, stubborn old man... pick any 3. ;)



  • @LeeC2202 @SkylineGTRFreak gets a lot of C&D notices (like from the people who make ArmA), but he hasn't been sued [yet], so I think it is worth the risk. Besides, who doesn't like Thomas the Dank Engine?



  • @LeeC2202 okay cleaning up my comments now.



  • @nathanjamesddg151 Well I won't raise my hand to that question... I love Thomas. :D



  • @nathanjamesddg151 F... ARMA people. i hate them. greedy Bastards.



  • @FoxtrotDelta yup. @LeeC2202 So I looked into the editorial uses, and it makes it pretty clear that it is not to be used in commercial projects that are for profit, but it does not cover not for profit projects. It does not even mention them, which is confusing.



  • @LeeC2202

    I suppose in some sense, that would apply. Without OpenIV, would users be able to get at those models by simple file access?

    without openiv or similar software no they can't get it..



  • @nathanjamesddg151 They've possibly done that to place the onus on the buyer to seek the clarification. Saying nothing is probably their answer to not saying the wrong thing.

    I don't know... I think I've dug myself a big enough hole now, I think I should lie in it and be quiet. :slight_smile:

    @FoxtrotDelta I have a query but to ask it would open a potential avenue... so I'll ask it by PM.



  • guys what's the matter? If we go by that, I believe half or more of the authors over at Turbosquid didn't seek permission or licenses from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Ford or anyone else either. If we'd start to worry over an IP, we might as well shut down the whole site. I mean, how many modders here have asked EITHER the game company/publisher of the 3d model or real manufacturer of a weapon/vehicle/whatever for permission? I'd say close to 0. Something like 0.000001%. Besides, I have never heard of anyone getting sued over something like this on first violation/without any notice beforehand.



  • @LeeC2202 pm is always better.
    @SkylineGTRFreak you do have a point.



  • @FoxtrotDelta Me = :zipper_mouth: from now on.



  • @FoxtrotDelta said in [Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine:

    @krashadam Thank you. you did a good thing for us. we are greatful to you for bringing it to our attention. i didn't know this Before.

    No problem. Glad to help. :)



  • @SkylineGTRFreak said in [Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine:

    guys what's the matter? If we go by that, I believe half or more of the authors over at Turbosquid didn't seek permission or licenses from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Ford or anyone else either. If we'd start to worry over an IP, we might as well shut down the whole site. I mean, how many modders here have asked EITHER the game company/publisher of the 3d model or real manufacturer of a weapon/vehicle/whatever for permission? I'd say close to 0. Something like 0.000001%. Besides, I have never heard of anyone getting sued over something like this on first violation/without any notice beforehand.

    When it comes to vehicle designs (like vehicles from Chevy, GMC, etc), it's just a design, it gets used by everybody. However, unless you plan on tossing a Ford logo on a car that looks like a Ford Taurus, gonna need licensing for that. The author of that Thomas model may have asked the original designers of Thomas permission before he could do the model and upload it.

    From, maybe 1985 to 2005 GMC had the design of the Chevrolet Astro, but it was called the Safari. The GMC Safari. It's happened with the Blazer too. Why? Because General Motors gave Chevrolet (since it was run seperatley, even though Chevy was part of the General Motors Corporation) was given permission by default. (Or vice versa.)

    In the case of Oldsmobile and General Motors, the (2001?) Oldsmobile Bravada, was also the same design used with the Blazer and the Jimmy.

    Links, to help define my point:

    Blazer, Bravada, and Jimmy:
    https://www.google.ca/search?q=oldsmobile+bravada&biw=1920&bih=971&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwirqa-FwPzQAhUQx2MKHbeQDPcQsAQIJg#imgrc=YaohDRaGI5h0uM%3A

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=oldsmobile+bravada&biw=1920&bih=971&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwirqa-FwPzQAhUQx2MKHbeQDPcQsAQIJg#tbm=isch&q=gmc+jimmy+2001&imgrc=K_PaGFWECT6sUM%3A

    Chevy Astro and Safari

    Safari: https://www.google.ca/search?q=oldsmobile+bravada&biw=1920&bih=971&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwirqa-FwPzQAhUQx2MKHbeQDPcQsAQIJg#tbm=isch&q=chevy+astro+and+safari+1989&imgrc=PysikEJpDbxTbM%3A

    Astro: https://www.google.ca/search?q=oldsmobile+bravada&biw=1920&bih=971&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwirqa-FwPzQAhUQx2MKHbeQDPcQsAQIJg#tbm=isch&q=chevy+astro+and+safari+1989&imgrc=5FMi6hXlu1hpBM%3A

    Now about people getting sued...

    A user named Avail (https://www.gta5-mods.com/users/avail) has been sent a C&D by Rockstar games. C&Ds work like this:

    The C&D is sent to the person who is purportedly committing illegal activity. If the C&D's deadlines have failed to be fulfilled, the person, party, intellect, etc, will be brought to court for lawsuit.

    Don't believe me?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist

    In Avail's case, if Avail failed to comply with Rockstar's requested actions, he/she would be brought into court for failing to cease and desist in Rockstar's behalf, possibly paying a fine (or if this is a law in some areas) possibly go to jail. I haven't heard that happen in this kind of case, but I'd still thought I'd mention it, just in case if it did at one point or another.



  • @krashadam that user might have gone out of bounds, and limits to do something that really damages Rockstar's Profits. most likely, online alternatives. or online moddings.



  • @FoxtrotDelta said in [Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine:

    @krashadam that user might have gone out of bounds, and limits to do something that really damages Rockstar's Profits.

    Well, whichever, it's a modder who's threatening to be sued. Doesn't feel new, really.



  • @krashadam all i am saying is, Rockstar going after him. must be something other than what we are discussing here. i Bet its something more than just a simple port of 3d model into gta 5. i bet its about profits and online somehow.



  • @krashadam I have to agree with @SkylineGTRFreak because he gets a lot of C&D notices, so he definitely knows what he his saying. I highly doubt that the author of the Thomas the Tank Engine model asked toy giant Mattel if he could model Thomas. And he has a point. Some 75% of the mods on site have trademarked content. Unless the design is generic, there will be trademarked content, but I think the modding community will take its chances.



  • @nathanjamesddg151 said in [Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine:

    @krashadam I have to agree with @SkylineGTRFreak because he gets a lot of C&D notices, so he definitely knows what he his saying. I highly doubt that the author of the Thomas the Tank Engine model asked toy giant Mattel if he could model Thomas. And he has a point. Some 75% of the mods on site have trademarked content. Unless the design is generic, there will be trademarked content, but I think the modding community will take its chances.

    Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that @Rappo wouldn't want the site to head that direction because then he'd probably get lawsuits. On top of the icing on the shit cake, is the cherry. The cherry, being this site. Because if Rappo gets lawsuits based on Rockstar's complaint with the site (because it's community flew off the map and 'took chances'), this means the site goes down, because he failed to follow Rockstar policy, which also gets his Social Club banned. (when FiveM was around, the way Rockstar punished the creator of the software was by banning his Social Club).

    Also, trademark doesn't matter in a case like this, because technically it's advertising for companies like Chevy, Adidas, Sony, Microsoft, etc, so that's why they exist. Besides, real cars with real car emblems (the ones you see on the front and back) are getting sold as used cars, so it works a bit like that here.



  • @krashadam I don't think that that is the case. They won't sue @rappo, they'd always first file a C&D notice, and that happens a lot. Ask @rappo. While your points are valid, your conclusions are misguided. And saying that car mods provide free advertising is also wrong because some companies have licenses with modeling sites, like Ford, who are quite strict about how their products are portrayed, especially in video games. Just look at this model for the Ford Crown Victoria: http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-crown-victoria/970820 The Crown Victoria has been out of production since 2012 and the model is still covered under Ford's license. On top of that, you would more likely be sued by companies like Ubisoft or Activision for using their models without permission (Ask @SkylineGTRFreak, he gets C&D notices from Bohemia Interactive all the time). So if @rappo wanted to play it safe, he would disallow any models ripped from any game, any licensed vehicles, licensed weapons, and only allow generic cars and weapons mods, which would make gta5-mods.com a very bland site. And I'm sure that Mattel's lawyers have better things to do than sue @rappo. As for FiveM, they likely only banned the account after ignoring their C&D notices. On top of that, if @rappo has an issue with something, he will contact the modder and then take the appropriate actions to prevent himself from being sued. @rappo has been doing this for a long time, since GTA III, he knows what he is doing. And seeing as all the files are reviewed before being uploaded, I think that if there is a problem with using a trademarked model, @rappo won't approve it.



  • @nathanjamesddg151 said in [Vehicle] [Train] Thomas the Tank Engine:

    @krashadam I don't think that that is the case. They won't sue @rappo, they'd always first file a C&D notice, and that happens a lot. Ask @rappo. While your points are valid, your conclusions are misguided. And saying that car mods provide free advertising is also wrong because some companies have licenses with modeling sites, like Ford, who are quite strict about how their products are portrayed, especially in video games. Just look at this model for the Ford Crown Victoria: http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-crown-victoria/970820 The Crown Victoria has been out of production since 2012 and the model is still covered under Ford's license.

    Ford is strict about how their products are portrayed if we're talking games like The Crew, Forza, Driver: San Francisco, L.A Noire, Need For Speed, Gran Turismo, Project Cars, Driveclub, any game that already came with real licensed cars. I haven't heard anything about Ford or Chevy complaining about modders putting their cars in Grand Theft Auto or whatever game that gets modded with real cars.



  • @krashadam and I have yet to hear of companies other than video game developers filing C&D notices on not for profit mods. Hence why I am buying the model and not ripping it from somewhere else.


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