Ped conversion without ZM3, is it actually possible?

So I am just embarking on my first Ped conversion as a break from script mods. I have the model broken down into components, all the materials assigned etc... which was all fairly smooth, apart from some duplicate polygons causing z-fighting, which are now gone.

So my thought process for the rest of the conversion is:

Output a compatible ped from the game in Open Formats. I am using a flat-shoed ped, not high-heeled, so I have exported a_f_y_runner_01.
Strip that ped down to a base level of components that matches what I have. Because of the single-piece suit in the model I am converting, I have not been able to split into uppr, lowr and feet, because the splits cause smoothing irregularities.
Import the mesh data from my partially converted ped, align the mesh and then rig and weight the skin on the existing skeleton.
Export the newly rigged components as a complete ped.
Import as Open Formats back into the game.

Is all that possible without ever touching ZModeler3? Or have I missed some crucial aspects that need to be in there to do so?

It's been about 12 or 13 years since I last did any serious Max stuff, so it's like learning all over again. I just really, really don't want to go near ZM3. Every time I pay for a license it expires unused after a couple of hours... I can't bear it.

Joe Gillian

@LeeC2202 said in Ped conversion without ZM3, is it actually possible?:

So I am just embarking on my first Ped conversion as a break from script mods. I have the model broken down into components, all the materials assigned etc... which was all fairly smooth, apart from some duplicate polygons causing z-fighting, which are now gone.

So my thought process for the rest of the conversion is:

Output a compatible ped from the game in Open Formats. I am using a flat-shoed ped, not high-heeled, so I have exported a_f_y_runner_01.

Strip that ped down to a base level of components that matches what I have. Because of the single-piece suit in the model I am converting, I have not been able to split into uppr, lowr and feet, because the splits cause smoothing irregularities.

Import the mesh data from my partially converted ped, align the mesh and then rig and weight the skin on the existing skeleton.

Export the newly rigged components as a complete ped.

Import as Open Formats back into the game.

Is all that possible without ever touching ZModeler3? Or have I missed some crucial aspects that need to be in there to do so?

It's been about 12 or 13 years since I last did any serious Max stuff, so it's like learning all over again. I just really, really don't want to go near ZM3. Every time I pay for a license it expires unused after a couple of hours... I can't bear it.

ZM3 does indeed suck, but it IS necessary, unfortunately. It is the only program that allows you to apply weights to the model that the game can read. Literally no one wants to have to use zModeler, it's simply because there's no other option right now.

FoxtrotDelta

@LeeC2202 i cna;'t send you a personal message . give me a window here.

@FoxtrotDelta Sorry, you should be able to do so now... I just needed some isolation time, so had to put the locks on.

@Joe-Gillian If that truly is the case then I will quit while I am not losing. I refuse to throw more money at that software, I've already spent more on it than it's worth.

@HeySlickThatsMe & @Rarefacer I sincerely apologise for tagging you guys and I hope you can forgive me for doing so but I thought if anyone would know the answer to this, it would be one of you two.

I know you have both had experience with GIMS and that seems to be a rare talent in these parts. I can't see any reason why GIMS would apply a Skin modifier and allow you to adjust envelopes, if it didn't support vertex weighting and exporting... it makes no sense.

Can you shed any light on this please?

Joe Gillian

@LeeC2202 said in Ped conversion without ZM3, is it actually possible?:

@Joe-Gillian If that truly is the case then I will quit while I am not losing. I refuse to throw more money at that software, I've already spent more on it than it's worth.

While I generally agree with this sentiment, I must ask why you are so averse to the program. My usage of it is actually very minimal, and is really the last stop before export. Most of the heavy lifting is done in the better modeling programs, and it's simply a copy-weights job in zmodeler after that. I must assume that you're more a fan of painting weights manually than trusting the program to assign the influences. I rarely, if ever, do any manual painting (it shows, sometimes).

@Joe-Gillian It has all the typical traits of a programmer designed art tool. It's technically very clever but has had no thought put into it from a usability perspective. It takes all the accepted conventions of 3D modelling and applies the programmer's own style as a replacement. That's why in the development studios I have worked in, either I created the tools for the artists, or they were created under strict guidance of the artists.

I can do things in seconds in Max that takes me hours in ZM3 because I first have to work out where the same options have been hidden in that horrendous UI. Even simple right-click context menus have been abandoned in exchange for some backwards and forwards navigation through brightly-coloured icons.

As for weighting, I would never copy weights, they would be created from scratch based on the model.

HeySlickThatsMe

Ummmm
uhhh.....
emmm...
did you mean that when you edit something it goes back to normal?

@HeySlickThatsMe I'm just trying to get a sense of whether what I am doing, is even possible. I've stopped at this point to find out whether I have any hope of exporting from Max into the game at all, using just GIMS.

My next step would be to import the game model and then apply my mesh to the skeleton but it now seems in doubt if that's going to work.

If I have to use ZM3, then I'll give up... I just wondered what your thoughts were based on the work you had done with the Watchdogs 2 characters and clothes.

HeySlickThatsMe

I don't really know
Btw i actually didn't rig anything from Watch dogs 2 Yet (But im willing to do this soon) i only did edit some multiplayer model's with vertex selection (Like removing unnecessary parts or making something longer) and my head model was just multiplayer head rigged to franklin (With a few bone bugs) etc

Rarefacer

@LeeC2202 Hi man! I used Zmodeler3 and GIMS EVO and each one has pros and cons. I understand that about pay licenses and for example, I opened a Patreon searching support to pay Zmodeler3 but that is not working (also I not released major thing yet to get support).

Well, I used GIMS EVO to make skins like The Green Goblin 2002 (released by JulioNIB) and Norman Reedus (Silent Hills PT released by MetaGTA) , and used Zmodeler 3 to make The Green Goblin 2014 (released by JulioNIB).

Zmodeler3 Pros:

Can split/weld rigged meshes without lost/damage smoothing groups, normals and skin weights.
In peds, easy hierarchy link/unlink components without lost parent connection and metadata.
Fast and direct export of modded GTA V files.
If is well done, always is clean the exported files without alteration on the mesh.

Zmodeler3 Cons:

Always pay to use.
Very basic modelling and texturing tools.
Not allow direct rigging with poses.
Limited GTA V materials library.
Not retopology/optimization tools.
Not friendly UI and long pipelines.
Not has native GTA V parent/dummy creation/modification tools.
Not has native GTA V collision creation/modification tools.
No direct LOD models creation, is necessary to import the LODs from other software.
In props creation, not offer control on the hierarchy and can be broken when we not respect the "add to parent" order.

3ds Max + GIMS Evo Pros:

GIMS Evo free and 3ds Max free in student license.
Very advanced modelling and texturing tools.
Allow direct rigging with poses shortening too much the rigging work.
Friendly UI and short pipelines.
Detailed and extended GTA V materials library.
Great retopology/optimization tools.
Has native GTA V parent/dummy creation/modification tools.
Has native GTA V collision creation/modification tools.
Direct LOD models creation.
In props creation, has plenty control on parents and hierarchy.

3ds Max + GIMS Evo Cons:

Very delicate smoothing groups, normals and skin weights manipulation.
Hard to split/weld meshes without lost skin and smoothing groups data.
Long times exporting modded GTA V/OpenFormats files.
Careful usage of links to not destroy the hierarchy and metadata.
Some complex skinned meshes can present deformations after export.

Well that's a summary of my experience with both software. Personally I prefer GIMS EVO.

@Rarefacer Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. The cost of ZM3 isn't a problem, I just object to paying for software that's as badly designed as that. You know, it's almost 50% of the cost of a basic Adobe Creative subscription and the comparison just isn't even close.

So just to be sure I am reading your post correctly, you have managed to create a skin only using Max and GIMS, is that correct?

If I know it's possible, then I will continue... even if I just get this one model done, it will satisfy my curiosity. Although if it is possible, there could be no end of new additions to my Ped collection.

Joe Gillian

This post is deleted!

Rarefacer

@LeeC2202 Yeah, we just need follow the GIMS Evo process to import and convert any game ped model (ig_bankman is recommendable because has almost all components separated) and sure, you can go further in your collection.