Best posts made by Dark0ne

Hello everyone,

My name is Robin and I've taken over the day to day running of 5Mods from Rappo. You can read more about that in Rappo's announcement thread.

I just wanted to (relatively) briefly touch base with you all about some of the niggling issues there are right now on 5Mods and where my focus currently lies with getting us up to speed and up to the extremely high levels of service Rappo was providing previously.

After 24 hours on the job I can tell you right now that Rappo was an absolute machine. The responsibilities and manual and direct interaction he had with the file systems on the site is to be highly lauded. It's clear that he wanted to keep things tight and to generally do all the work himself because that's what he liked doing and what he thought was necessary. It's lead to a great personal service on 5Mods, for sure, and I know he was loved a lot in this community and for good reason.

The manual validation and approval process for uploading new files to the site is one I understand was born out of necessity after the Angry Planes scandal, but, since then, the main crux of the site and its main purpose for existing -- that of uploading and sharing modifications for GTA5 -- has had to go completely and solely through him. And that must have been a big (and time-consuming) burden for him to bear. Well, I know it was, because I'm currently doing it. Just this morning, I've woken up after 7 hours sleep to find 50 new file uploads waiting for my approval. That's a lot to wake up to every morning, especially on the weekends when you would like to relax more, but the weekends are even busier than the weekdays.

The issue I have is that I'm never going to be able to provide the same high level of service that Rappo did on my own. I honestly have no idea how Rappo ever managed to take a holiday! My main concern is that there are often times when I am without internet for many days at a time. Case-in-point I have two weddings coming up over the next two weekends where I will not have any internet at all. If I don't have internet, files uploaded to 5Mods don't get approved and mod authors, understandably, will get upset.

As such, our current focus on the sites is on reducing the reliance on myself directly as a bottleneck to you all getting the mods you want.

The way we plan to do this is by enhancing and improving on the current admin tools that Rappo was previously using so that a team of moderators can be brought in to help with moderating the file database, handling file approvals and so on and so forth. The main aim of this is to not only bring in people who understand this community well (and better than I do at this time), but also to reduce the time it takes for your files to get approved and your reports to get actioned. The end result is you're relying less on just me (or any one individual) and more on a team of users who can potentially handle things a lot faster while maintaining a high level of quality.

Right now, Rappo has coded the admin section the way you would code any part of a site that only you would use. The core functionality is there, but we'll need to do a bit of work to improve security and set it up for a team approach. Similarly, there are some parts of the site (such as the featured mods and changing of download buttons to point to an external source) that can currently only be done by directly editing rows in the database itself, i.e. there is currently no web interface or admin area for these aspects of the site. We'll need to code whole new functionality to bring that into the admin web interface as directly editing the database is not ideal in any way.

5Mods was completely coded by Rappo, so while we have programmers who know Ruby on Rails, we'll suffer from the same issues any programmer suffers who enters a large code project that is not their own. We're going to need to learn how Rappo has done things before we can properly begin to edit it, and this obviously takes time.

Irrespective, right now our focus is on getting the admin and moderation section up to scratch and getting together a moderation team who can help with the running of 5Mods moving forward. I'd obviously like to get this done as fast as possible so you're not relying on me as much as you are currently, especially in regards to new file approvals. Coming from a site like Nexus Mods where the community is able to upload files instantly without any sort of admin approval it's a bit of a culture shift for me, but I'm sure I can find the right balance for 5Mods given time.

I'm currently aware of a few issues that we will also look into once we've sorted out the admin and moderation section, these include:

• Currently it seems that 5Mods will only host files that are 100MB or less in size. Apparently, this was chosen as the cut-off point to reduce the cost of file storage for Rappo. We will definitely want to change this moving forward so mod authors with large files don't have to upload their files to external services like DropBox and MediaFire and we can maintain the same standard of service throughout the site, irrespective of file size. We've successfully implemented upload scripts that support files up to 5GB in size on Nexus Mods, and I definitely want to ensure we can support the same on 5Mods.
• The servers are running almost to their peak capacity such that, on weekends or on days when traffic is higher than normal, it can sometimes become overloaded and inaccessible. We will look into the server set up and how we can increase capacity so that this isn't a problem moving forward.
• Currently any virus scans of new uploads need to be done manually by the admin approving the file. We'll work to implement the scanning of all files uploaded to 5Mods through the VirusTotal API, where the files will be scanned by 57 different virus and malware programs. We'll try to link the reports of these scans somewhere on file pages so that all users can see the results of the virus scan before deciding on whether they want to download and install a mod or not.
• There seems to be a bug in the profile picture setup for some users that is preventing it from updating on the forums when they update it on the main site. This is a low priority issue for us in light of the issues highlighted already, but we will take a quick look at some point to ascertain whether it's worth fixing it or not.
• I'm aware that I've been missing tags on files and some files have been added to the wrong category. Thank you to the people who have reported these issues so far and I'm sorry about that. I'll be more diligent moving forward.
• Because the featured files and download linking need to be done via direct database edits I am loathe to touch this aspect of the site right now until we can integrate this functionality into the new admin area. It's too much of a risk, else. I hope that will be done this week. If you're a mod author who currently needs their download button linked to an external source then please bear with us until we can complete this task.

So that's where we currently are and what we're aiming to get done over the coming days, weeks and months. If you think I've missed something please let me know.

PS. Please be aware that I am in a GMT timezone (while Rappo was on GMT-8). As such, the usual times you expected Rappo to be on will now not be the same as the time's I am online, for obvious reasons.

Thank you for the awesome welcome, Rappo!

I'm going to put the TL;DR at the top of this post for just-in-case reasons and say that very, very little on 5Mods is changing any time soon. The site is remaining the same, there's no plans for any sort of merge with Nexus Mods at this time, and any changes are going to be mostly quality of life alterations in the short term.

With that out the way, I'll be short and sweet and simply say that it's both an honour and exciting to be able to take over the reigns of a site and community as large and established as 5Mods. As a very brief bio, my name is Robin, I'm 30 years old and I live in the UK. I've been running NexusMods.com for coming on 16 years now and I'm proud to be able to host so many awesome mods for so many great games.

Anyway, enough of that, back to 5Mods.

I've been conversing with Rappo for going on 5 months now about anything and everything to do with this community, and while I have a lot to learn about the ins and outs, I'm eager to do my very best.

I want to keep things as "normal" as possible for all of you both in terms of how the site looks and works, but also in how it's moderated and maintained. This isn't about bringing and forcing Nexus Mods rules, styles and etiquettes on to 5Mods, this is about keeping 5Mods as 5Mods for the foreseeable future.

In the very short term we're already making one change right now which I hope isn't frowned upon too much.

We're in the process of finding the right place for our ad slots and unfortunately this does mean changing a few placements as our advertisers are a bit strict on placement -- normally to improve the browsing experience for you. For example, we're not allowed to place ads in places where you could easily mistake a placement for actual content on the site i.e. we can't put a box ad amongst all the search results on the site in case new users mistakenly click the ad thinking it's a file. It also helps to prevent those pesky "Download button" ads from confusing users further. Unfortunately, that's exactly where a lot of the ads currently are (or were) on 5Mods.

Instead, we need to make distinct areas for ads, typically in a "header and footer" system and we must try and keep these placements as uniform as possible. This means having the same number of ad placements on every page. The result is that on some of the pages of the site you'll see less ads than before, but no pages will have more ads than before Rappo passed the site on to us. So it'll either be the same number of ad placements, or less. Right now, it's turning out to be less on quite a few pages.

Obviously 5Mods is quite custom and a one size fits all approach isn't going to work, but we're trying to find the best locations possible that don't detract from the content of the site or confuse users and at the same time trying to remain as sympathetic as possible to the site's format.
I apologise if we get this wrong initially and I would be happy to listen to feedback, within reason, on how we can make the ad placements look better or fit better moving forward. I understand a lot of you are using AdBlockers so this isn't a major issue for these users.

Moving on to the short term (as opposed to the "right now") it is my intention, moving forward, to change the site so it allows for instant approval of new file uploads without the need for admin interaction at the upload stage.

To combat any potential issues that can arise from this we will bolster the moderation team here at 5Mods to ensure the current rules are being followed properly and that any files that don't fit the uploading criteria are handled swiftly. Similarly, we will also look into implementing VirusTotal scans on all new file uploads, much like we have on Nexus Mods, to ensure peace of mind. This is a system that works very well at Nexus Mods and I am confident the same can work at 5Mods, thus reducing massively the delay on releasing new files to the site while also reducing your reliance on me as a bottleneck.

I hope to consult 5Mods users on this topic soon before I implement anything as I imagine it has the potential to spark some controversy.

In terms of "plans", that's it right now. We've got nothing else on the radar for 5Mods other than keeping things going as they always have as much as possible.

If you need to talk to an admin about any issues or for any issues that you would normally talk to Rappo about then your point of contact will now be myself.

As you can imagine, trying to wrap my head around all the inner workings of the site, your etiquettes and culture is almost overwhelming so it's going to take me a little while to get used to things, but I'm determined to do right by you all. So, please bear with me and point out when I goof up to help me learn quicker. I'm in constant contact with Rappo as well so between you all I'm confident I can continue the great work that's already gone on here at 5Mods.

Thank you.

Hi folks,

Following consultation with mod authors via our Discord server we have introduced a new process when uploading files.

Previously, when authors uploaded new files or updates for their files on 5Mods it would go into a private queue that moderators would have to manually verify and accept before the file would be shown available for download on 5Mods. Sometimes this can delay the release of your files by up to 24 hours or more depending on how busy the moderation team is. This can obviously be quite annoying if you need to release a quick update for your files.

To help alleviate this issue, and to put more responsibility into the hands of the community itself, we're bringing in a "Verified Mod Author" system which will remove the moderation queue for mod authors who fit our specific criteria. When a Verified Mod Author uploads a file to the site it will be available as soon as the Virus Total scan is completed and returns a negative for viruses, which is normally within 10 minutes, with no moderator approval necessary.

In order for a page to become visible to users it must have a file that has been scanned by Virus Total and come back clean. Thus there should not be a situation where users come across file pages that do not have a file/download attached to it.

A Verified Mod Author is any user who has 3 uploads already verified by moderators on 5Mods and whose account is older than one month. If a user does not fit this criteria then they will be subject to the previous system where a moderator will have to manually approve their files before they are available on the site. Once they do fit this criteria they'll automatically be moved into the Verified Mod Author subgroup.

We've made this system to reduce the waiting times for new files and reduce the burden on moderators on 5Mods. The idea is to put more faith and trust in some of the more well known and active mod authors in the community and to give the community more responsibility, rather than relying on a select few moderators to dictate what goes on 5Mods all the time. 5Mods is a community site after all, and while moderators and admins have the final say, I don't think it's necessary to be continually holding every user's hand if they can stick to the rules and etiquettes of the site.

We've been testing the system with a select few mod authors over the past week and we believe it is now bug free. We've now turned on the system for all applicable users and will trial how it works out over the comings weeks before decided if any changes need to be made.

Here's a short FAQ to answer some obvious questions:

Q. When you say "3 uploads" do you mean 3 file uploads on a single page, or 3 different mod pages?

We mean 3 different file pages with 3 or more uploads across the 3 pages, not 3 uploads on a single file page.

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Q. I am a prolific mod author who updates his/her page regularly but I only have 1 or 2 mods on 5Mods, not 3. Can I still be made a verified mod author so updating my mod pages is easier?

Yes, if you don't fit the criteria above but you are still a prolific, respectable mod author then we will review such circumstances on an individual basis. Contact me if you think that fits you.

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Q. What if verified mod authors post pages that aren't acceptable for 5Mods? E.g. file pages without proper screenshots or descriptions?

If you see inappropriate or badly made file pages then please report the page to the moderation team using the "Report" button next to the file name, then move on. Please don't start arguments in the comment section -- leave it to the moderators to sort out.

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Q. Can verified mod authors be removed from this automatic verification system if they repeatedly upload file pages that aren't adequate for 5Mods?

Yes, we've coded the system in such a way that we can manually pick and choose people who can, and cannot, be verified mod authors. That way, if a verified mod author continually uploads pages that aren't complete (e.g. no screenshots, bad descriptions, etc.) we can put them back into the non-verified user group, thus requiring all their files be manually verified by moderators again.

Hello everyone,

If you're wondering who I am then you can find a recap of recent events in Rappo's announcement and my own.

This week we've been working hard trying to get to grips with Rappo's code, plugins and hooks for the website and the way it integrates with the forums. A few of you might have noticed a few glitches here and there but, for the most part, these have been patched up relatively quickly.

Before I head off to a friend's wedding this weekend I wanted to give you a brief run-down of the changes we've made this week so people aren't left wondering "hang on, was it always like that?". We won't be making any changes over the weekend as we value time off and relaxation - non-stop coding simply leads to bad errors and sleepless nights!

So without further ado, here's the changelog this week:

• Increased the search results/category results back to 24 from 16. It dropped to 16 briefly as we removed the 3 square block ads from the search results along with the rows of results those ads were on.
• Completely removed the 100MB file upload limit on 5Mods. You can now upload and download files of any size to the site without restriction.
• Setup a moderation team of 10 individuals, handpicked by Rappo himself, to lead the moderation efforts on the site moving forward. Moderators can edit and approve files, remove file comments and moderate the forums. This involved an extensive reworking of the admin code that Rappo had only half-finished and may still have a few bugs in it.
• Changed the upload form so you can tag your own files. This can only be done when you first upload your file and is designed to help the moderation team. Please be aware the moderation team might disagree with your tags when approving your files and whatever the moderation team decides will be final (but open to consultation moving forward).

We've worked extensively on the admin tools this week, so this list is only half of the changes made but will be largely irrelevant to normal users. Moving forward we will be relying heavily on our volunteer team of moderators to keep the site clean and tidy for all of you, so it's important we provide the moderators with the tools necessary to do their job properly.

While I have you here, please note that with this change towards a team of moderators you should now be reporting any issues you have with files or comments on the site using the report functionality. This will be the fastest and most effective way to have your issue be seen by the moderation team. Please please PLEASE do not "at mention" myself, MrMason or specific users but instead use the report functionality provided. That way, your report goes to the entire moderation team and not just one individual who may or may not be online anytime soon (case in point, MrMason and I are both away all weekend and will not be able to deal with any moderation requests if we're mentioned directly).

Have a good weekend, everyone.

We've rolled out a couple of major changes to 5Mods today that I wanted to make sure you are all aware of.

First of all, we have implemented automated VirusTotal scanning of all new files on the site. This means that when you upload your files to 5Mods it is automatically sent to VirusTotal to be scanned by over 50 of the most popular and effective anti-virus programs on the market today. All users of the site will be provided with a link on your file pages to the VirusTotal report of the files you upload for their own peace of mind.

If your file is reported as malicious by 4 or more anti-virus programs then it will be automatically flagged to the moderation team for additional testing and will not be available for download until the team can make a decision on your file.

Files using external hosts (e.g. large files) will not be scanned by VirusTotal and users download these at their own risk.

We are currently in the process of scanning every file uploaded to 5Mods in the past and over the next week this data will also be populated so that every single file uploaded to 5Mods, old and new, will have a VirusTotal report attached to it.

The second major change we've made is to allow multiple file uploads to a single mod page. This will open up a few new options to mod authors with their files, including the ability to maintain a "back catalogue" of previous versions of your mod as well as offering different variations of your mod on the same page, when before mod authors would have had to make an entirely new mod page so they could upload a slightly different file.

In order to fit in this new functionality, which you'll find below the ad area on the left nav where the description used to be, we've had to do some shuffling around with the file page design. This has involved moving the description area to the main content area of the screen. Arguably, it's my personal opinion that the description of a mod is very important -- what it does, how to install it, known issues and so on are extremely important bits of information to users of your mods. Most definitely as important as the screenshots of your mod working. As such, the description should be front and centre on a mod page instead of relegated to the sidebar.

We've designed the description area so that it will display up to 350 pixels in height (which is about 15 lines on desktop browsers). If your description is longer than that a link with "Show full description" will show that users can click to expand the area to its full height. I think this is a good compromise so that the comments section doesn't get thrown too far down the page without a user choosing to do so.

I am happy to listen to reasonable feedback on these design changes, taking into account the new multiple file functionality needs to fit in somewhere where it's relatively obvious.

This marks the end of the major changes we're going to be making to the 5Mods site for at least the next couple of months. We'll be around to fix any bugs in the new code we've added to the site and to keep things up and maintained, but our coders are needed elsewhere right now as we ramp up to releasing our new site design on Nexus Mods.

Several mod authors and users have contacted me over the past few days to discuss their concern with the rising trend of people showcasing their paid for/"VIP" work that is never intended for and/or is unlikely to ever be uploaded to 5Mods. Basically, using 5Mods to advertise paid for mod making services that will not benefit 5Mods or its users.

At the moment there is no rule regarding this on 5Mods, likely because it hasn't been a major issue until recently.

I'm writing this thread to show a potential rule change that I would like to bring into force on 5Mods and the forums and for any users who are concerned about this topic, either way, to provide feedback on this rule change and say their piece.

The rule I would like to add to the site is thus:

"Users should only advertise, showcase or otherwise promote their work and/or services if the product of that work is fully intended to be released on 5Mods within a reasonable time frame. To clarify, timed exclusives for Patreon backers are acceptable, but you must intend to (and actually) release your mod on 5Mods after that timed exclusive period is over, and that timed exclusive period should be no more than 1 month. If you are unsure of whether you can or will upload your work to 5Mods once it's finished then do not showcase it until you are sure."

If you have feelings on this matter or believe that the rule should be adapted or clarified in some way then please make them known here. Personally, I'd love opinions on whether 1 month is too long/too short for timed exclusives. The consultation period for this rule change is going to be 4 days and, on Friday, I will take on board any feedback that users have given and make my decision.

Thank you.

After thinking this through thoroughly, taking on feedback from this thread and also from all the chat on the 5Mods Discord server over the past days in regards to this issue I have decided to maintain Rappo's rules in regards to external links using the main download button on the 5Mods file page. This means that, unless the file is too large to be uploaded to 5Mods or there are very specific reasons why the download button should link elsewhere (e.g. the download button for Script Hook points to the Script Hook website), we expect all mods to be uploaded to 5Mods rather than redirected to an external service. I want to reaffirm that this has always been 5Mods policy and I personally spoke to Rappo about this on Tuesday where he confirmed he never allowed external links to sites like ShareMods, nor would he have.

While I understand and appreciate the work that goes into making mods, if you feel you want to or should be making more money from your mods past what the donation and Patreon buttons already allow for, then 5Mods is probably not for you. I would like to maintain Rappo's vision of 5Mods being a place where users come to download mods, from 5Mods, for free and without additional hassle or expense. If you disagree with this vision then, rather than trying to change a core fundamental principle of this site, I ask that you please remain civil and make your choice on whether you want to continue using this site, as it always has been, or not.

On a personal note, I've decided to start donating to mod authors who, each month, are the most active and popular mod authors on 5Mods based on our internal database statistics. I know that Rappo used to donate to mod authors from time to time, but I'd like to make this a regular occurrence. I have already done the donations for this month and, from now on, I will do this around the start of each month moving forward.

Quite interestingly, exactly half of the 40 most active and popular authors this month do not ask for or even link donation methods on their profile.

Regardless, thank you for your understanding.

It doesn't escalate any further than me.

The author of the vehicle you are skinning specifically states his terms on his page, saying:

Random parts of the model have been mapped to the skin. Changing the skin will make textures look dodgey. On this note, please DO NOT upload reskins without first asking permision.

As such, the moderation team have done nothing wrong.

Since you have threatened legal action, however ridiculous the notion, I will now suspend your account as per our Terms of Service and leave this to my solicitor, should I hear anything from yours. You shall receive no further direct communication from me on this matter, or any matter to do with the site.

Have a great day.

@DarthPungz said in Feedback required: Rule change regarding showcasing mods not for 5Mods:

I think he means you advertise a paid mod, it has to come to the site for free within a month.

I mean if you make your mod a timed Patreon-exclusive, that exclusive time frame should be no more than 1 month.

I do not mean you should not post any WIP photos unless it will be released on 5Mods within a month. If you plan to release your mod on the internet, for free, then it doesn't matter how long it will take and how far along you are on your progress.

Should we really only be redirecting links if there's a legitimate reason to do so, e.g. the mod is too big to be hosted here? I don't really think we should be allowing redirected links to external services just for the sake of it. There's serious security issues with redirecting to content hosted on third-party servers, along with the fact it's actually just annoying for users of the site who come to download their mods from 5Mods. Instead, what we're talking about here is 5Mods being used as some sort of indexing service for mods hosted elsewhere, which isn't really what 5Mods is for.

Thoughts?

What a stupid mess this thread has become.

Free-speech doesn't apply to private entities. The first amendment directly relates to the government trying to silence its citizens, not citizens telling other citizens to STFU on their own property.

Also, from our Terms of Service that you agreed to when you registered here:

However, GTA5-Mods.com has the right to monitor or moderate User Content, in our sole discretion, and to enforce our or a third party’s intellectual property rights in any User Content. GTA5-Mods.com reserves the right to discard or remove User Content from the Site in its sole discretion and without any liability whatsoever.

So when you registered on this site and post anything on it, you give us the right (among others) to remove any content you post. You agreed to these terms. So let's grow up and move on from this pathetic discussion about what we can and cannot do.

It's very clear that we are transitioning from a site that was run, maintained and managed by one person to a site that is maintained more by the community, for the community. If you see something wrong or something that's not meant to be where it currently is then please report it and the moderation team will get around to it quickly. If you complain, but don't report, you're a part of the problem here and not a part of the solution.

It's important to understand that, even if Rappo was still the sole maintainer of the site now, he too (by his own words) would have also transitioned to a more community centric run site. One of the main reasons he left when he did was because he was spending 4 hours of his day, every day, running this site on top of a full-time job and trying to improve his personal life. He couldn't take a holiday. He couldn't start a family. He couldn't have much of a social life. It was completely untenable for him.

Everyone knows Rappo made a great site, but he sacrificed A LOT to keep the site this way. He absolutely did a great job here, and now it's important to delegate the work he did amongst the community rather than simply expecting one person to do it all for you. This is a site built around a community, and now it's up to the community to ensure it sticks to the high ordeals that Rappo ran it to.

So by all means if you have suggestions or want to talk constructively about areas of improvement for the site then please, go ahead. But try and keep the childish "RIP 5Mods" stuff out of here, because it helps absolutely no one.

Hi there,

We haven't changed anything to do with the download servers and we're still using Amazon AWS. If you used to get good speeds it's possible they're having issues with their network, but we haven't changed anything ourselves.

I just want to clarify a couple of things said in this and the previous thread.

When the moderators mention a "queue" this isn't actually a queue at all. All unapproved mods are visible to all moderators and await moderation on the same page. The "queue" the moderators mention is a hypothetical one based around the idea that the files that have been unapproved longest should be dealt with by the moderation team first. A logical idea, no? The Idea being, if there are 100 files in the moderation queue and a moderator only has the time to approve 10-20 files, he'll start from the bottom of the unapproved file list (the oldest files in the list). So, there's no actual queue as such.

RE: automatic approval of files, unfortunately Foxtrot has jumped the gun a bit on that one. It was something we were considering when we first took over from Rappo (it was mentioned in my first few announcements when I took over). We since changed our thinking to only allow automatic approval from "verified mod authors" or from mod authors who have more than 5 approved files already, but after recent goings on in the community that's also now dead in the water for the time being.

We've made a lot of changes recently in a short space of time and I mean it when I say we'll only be doing any bug fixes that may come up for the next few months at least -- no new features on 5Mods for a while. By all means request features you'd like to see on the site, but just be aware we're not going to be adding any new features for a while now.

The moderation team are new and getting in to their role here at 5Mods. It takes time. We also need to be able to leave the dust to settle for a little while before we can reliably decide whether we need more moderators. Bearing in mind some people who were added to the moderation team haven't actually done any moderating yet, for various reasons, so at the moment the team is about 4-6 strong, depending on the day of the week.

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay. Tomorrow was a very bad day!

Either way, images are now back and working.

They definitely can and do send us DMCA takedown requests, which we are required, by law, to take action on and respond to. "Copyright strikes" are a YouTube thing, specific to YouTube.

You should look up what "Fair use" covers because it most definitely does not cover taking commercial music from copyright holders and putting it in mods. Do your own research, but over the past 18 years I've discussed this topic in my own time (and with my own money) with numerous solicitors from numerous firms and they have all confirmed what I am telling you here -- "Fair use" does not and will not cover these sorts of mods. I've yet to find a single solicitor who disagrees.

Your argument seems to be against copyrights in general. It's an argument you're simply not going to win and by the letter of the law of most countries in the world, you would be considered wrong.

If you use someone else's music/sounds/videos/pictures/textures/meshes/animations/ANYTHING then it is their property, not yours. Simply the fact you have someone's music on your computer, or the fact it's available on the internet, does not somehow make that music yours or make it free to use and share with others. Even if you've bought it.

Unless the copyright holder specifically (or generally) says you can publicly share their work within the medium you're wanting to share it (e.g. mods) then you do not have permission to use that work.

It doesn't matter if you think it's unfair, unjust or wrong. The law is the law. And sharing music that you do not own, and do not have the right to redistribute, is against the law. If you would like to fight that law and take it up in the courts then that is your right and your prerogative. This rule change has been made because we don't want to fight the law in court because we (1) haven't got enough money and (2) haven't got enough time and (3) do not think the law is wrong in this.

To note; just because you can find something on the internet and download it does NOT mean it isn't copyrighted and it does NOT mean you can do anything you want with it. That is not how copyright works. That content might (also) be up illegally or the copyright owners might have been provided a special license for hosting it at that one location, but not elsewhere.

I see a few people mentioning (actual) creative commons/free to use music. As I mentioned in the OP, this content is fine and free to be hosted on 5Mods. However, you must ensure the licenses are valid and correct for any and all music you wish to use in your mods.

It's now Friday and I want to thank everyone for their feedback over this period. I'm currently extremely busy but I wanted to pop in here to say that I am going to go ahead with this rule change. I do not have time to update the relevant stickies/site rules (if any admin or moderator would like to do so, please go ahead). I'm making a slight change to the rule to avoid confusion and the final rule is as follows:

Users should only advertise, showcase or otherwise promote their work and/or services if the product of that work is fully intended to be released on 5Mods. To clarify, timed exclusives for Patreon backers are acceptable, but you must intend to (and actually) release your mod on 5Mods after that timed exclusive period is over, and that timed exclusive period should be no more than 1 month. If you are unsure of whether you can or will upload your work to 5Mods once it's finished then do not showcase it until you are sure.

In regards to setting up a separate section on the forums where people who are paywalling their work can still showcase and discuss them, I will admit that I have some serious trepidation in regards to allowing this. First and foremost, I am very confident that at least some of the work that is being paywalled is being done so illegally -- users are buying models from other websites which they are then turning into mods for GTA 5 that they are charging money for, without the license for that paid model allowing them to do this. To be clear; if the license of the models you're paying for does not specifically allow you to earn royalties from your work, you should not be charging for them in any way, shape or form. Worse still are people who are ripping assets from other games or software and are charging money for them. This is most definitely illegal.

On a personal level, I don't have a horse in that race and ergo I'm not particularly fussed. Having said that, 5Mods is now my responsibility and if 5Mods is seen to endorse or promote this sort of illegal (or even potentially illegal) activity then that puts 5Mods at risk. That's obviously not OK. I can tell you now that we most definitely do not allow anything like this on Nexus Mods, nor would I.

Trying to work out which users are creating legitimate, legal paywalled content and which users aren't is a moderation and administration quagmire that I'm not sure we really want to be touching in any way, shape or form. We're talking moderators having to get access to paywalled mods, finding the source of assets, acquiring the license agreements for said assets and assessing whether the author actually can paywall their content or not before we let their work be showcassed on 5Mods -- for absolutely no gain for 5Mods itself. I'm really not sure it's worth it.

5Mods itself currently has a lot of this questionable content on the site, some of which likely can fall under fair use, some probably not, and when we receive DMCA takedown notices we action them instantly and respectfully. The legal issue is amplified by many orders of magnitude when actual money is involved and it's something we really should not be touching unless we want to risk losing everything because of it.

Sorry, is SkylineGTRFreak a bad modder? Are the others who've come out and said they don't agree with this change? There are a lot of mod authors on 5Mods, Nexus Mods, ModDB, GameBanana and in the modding community in general that do it as a hobby, for fun. Those guys aren't going anywhere.

If the main driver for some mod authors is to want to make more money off mods (outside of the donations and Patreon options already offered), and these mod authors want to leave because they think they'll make more money elsewhere then that's fine. They can leave if they so wish as nothing is forcing them to stay here. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to make any more money by using GTAInside, however, and should likely look in to hosting the mods themselves on their own sites.

The rules are exactly what we're talking about here. A discussion was started in this thread asking if download buttons on file pages could be changed to allow mod authors to link to remote hosts which is not normal for 5Mods outside of large file downloads or specific mods that link to GitHub pages or personal websites (e.g. ScriptHook). Up to now, that's all it's been, a discussion.

Somehow we went from a discussion on the topic to full-blown nuclear meltdown before a decision has even been made. I find this a bit perplexing really.

PS. I am removing your strawpoll links, Matisek, as they are not what I'm looking for and easy to cheat/game to make the figures look bigger than then really are. What I'm looking for is balanced and open discussion on the topic. Unfortunately, that's all gone down-hill because the discussion has basically turned into threats of "do what I say, or I'll leave". In 16 years of running Nexus Mods I've never really responded well to that sort of mentality when we're trying to have a good discussion about a subject.

ITS CLEAR ENOUGH FROM ALL WHO HAVE REPLIED, WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE...

That's not clear at all. Have you read all the other replies to this thread? Several have replied in this very thread saying the exact opposite of what you're saying -- that they don't want the download buttons to redirect to another service and would rather keep downloads on 5Mods and only on 5Mods. The same is being said on the 5Mods Discord servers by the mod authors on there.

For a tally in this thread alone; Unknown Modder, SkylineGTRFreak, Cyron43 and ikt have all come out and said that they don't like the idea of the change to the rules that you are suggesting on third party content.

Don't ignore them to fit your agenda, please.

Now this site will be dying in next months... Because lots of modders will leave... What have you done DarkOne ? Cant you just appreciate their work and be normal?

I really don't see why asking people for their opinion on this subject before I make a decision, which is exactly what I've done, is being disrespectful to mod authors or not "normal". I'd even argue it shows a lot of respect by asking for actual opinions from mod authors before I make my decision, which seems to have been entirely ignored for some reason.

@krashadam said in whyyy so laaaaate:

Back when Rappo was admin wait time was only half an hour or a complete hour, not 4 hours... a lot of mods stopped being mods you know.

TIL Rappo didn't sleep.