@locotomb said in Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation:

@HarleyQuinnSquad said in Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation:

How very unfortunate. This violates our fair use of said music and our right to modify a game that we have PURCHASED. Copyright laws will eventually ban ALL mods that have any copyrighted content if you guys fall for this shitty DMCA crap.

Plus the bullshit part of all of this is that GTA V ALLOWS YOU to add your own radio station. How is that a DMCA violation? The publisher of the game is encouraging people to add their own music to the game.Please reconsider this, it could damage the GTA 5 modding community later down the line if you give in to these bullshit complaints.

I only read the first two posts, sorry, but this reminds me of all the tv shows that modify cars that are created and developed by a motor company. They showcase their work and give credit where the credit is due. This type of site does pretty much the same thing. What we are learning and unintentionally (I presume) teaching is that sharing is bad. I for one am very grateful for this Site and sites alike. Well Done Lads.

I totally agree! This is what I have been saying all along. Anything that I use in my mods I make sure I credit the person or company that made the resources. music, or videos that I use. I don't see the harm in doing that. It's not like I am trying to say that everything that I use is my own. But I am just glad that we can add other GTA songs to GTA V without them getting taken down. As long as I can do that I have no problems. Thanks for your insightful post!

@Jitnaught said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

@HarleyQuinnSquad

They host anything people put on there and they are encrypted with a password.

They explicitly state on their website that they can and will respond to valid DMCA requests.

Don't you know how people are getting around this stuff?

That doesn't sound legal.

Also when I was referring to notifications I was talking about the forums HOME page. If you would actually read what I posted you would know what I am talking about: https://forums.gta5-mods.com/

The first picture I posted was on the main forums page.

Great save moderators!

I've already said this before: moderators have no control over the settings of the GTA5-Mods or GTA5-Mods Forums.

Also: you ignored the question. Reminds me of something you've accused us of multiple times

Just because MEGA says that they will respond to DMCAs doesn't mean they will act on them. They defend their users unlike some people I know on GTA 5 mods. They understand the concept of fair use and they make sure users privacy is contained and protected. IT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL! No one knows what is in the files you upload until you give someone the password to view the files. It is called PRIVACY, not PIRACY. Also I saw what you posted and I edited my post saying that the moderators changed the settings on this particular forum AFTER I pointed it out twice. So don't bullshit me, I know you guys can set settings on certain forums. I didn't avoid the question, it was a stupid question so I didn't want to answer it. You should already know the answer but I will humor you. NO!!!!!!! It isn't piracy for the uploader to upload the movie. I couldn't care less to be honest if it is piracy for the user to download the movie. Movies are so expensive anyhow. Like I said before people will try out the movie and then buy it later when they go on sale. There is no impact on sales at all. I can already tell that you didn't even bother reading those research articles I showed you, so here they are again:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4831-net-music-piracy-does-not-harm-record-sales/

http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/P2PRevisited_IEP.pdf

READ them this time instead of being ignorant and making false claims, YET AGAIN! You'd think you would get the point after a while.

@Dark0ne said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

Since you keep saying we're ignoring you, trying to call out moderators for things we haven't even done, and claiming we're trying to hide this conversation (even when I've replied to this post multiple times to explain why you're wrong), I'm out. It's like talking to a brick wall and it's a complete waste of my time.

I know copyright law on this topic. I've paid plenty of solicitors over the past 18 years to clarify this very topic for me, I don't need to reevaluate it. Sharing copyrighted music, encrypted or unencrypted, is illegal and I'm not going to change my mind on enforcing this rule on the site. This is now "end of discussion" for me.

So, I was listening and responding, you kept on saying I wasn't, so now I'm definitely not.

Spoken like a truly brainwashed liberal. Also you are in denial because all of the things that I said happened in these very forum posts. If you don't believe me read them again because the proof is there. I have also replied back to you with facts and research about why piracy doesn't cause sales to drop, you just ignored them and didn't listen. You say you were listening but you never were. The only wall here is you! So you can cling to your stupid copyright laws while I make unique and fun mods for the modding community. You have made your views quite clear to everyone, so if GTA 5 mods deteriorates in a few years we will just take our mods elsewhere. In the end it doesn't matter what your views are, the mods will prevail elsewhere if needed. We hardly had a discussion, you didn't back up your claims with facts like I did. Lone and behold we see who liked your post, the gang of Jitnaught and ikt, how predictable. If it is the "end of discussion" for you and you are "out", then I said it once and I will say it again. Good Riddance!!

I am also done with this, because none of you will listen to reason and logic. Someone else can argue with these moderators, because they won't quit. So have fun arguing about things that don't matter, DMCAs won't stop mods from being made in the end. So with that said I AM OUT!

@Jitnaught said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

@HarleyQuinnSquad

As I said before these mods are ENCRYPTED.

Let's say someone rips a movie from a DVD, encrypts it, then uploads it to mediafire, and the only way for people to retrieve the movie is to decrypt it using a secret password. Is the person who uploaded the movie committing piracy, or are the users who are decrypting it?
Seems like a very easy to way to skirt piracy laws, "I didn't commit piracy because I didn't upload the movie, I uploaded an encrypted version of it that people have to know the password to use!"

No one knows this forum exists unless they outright search for it.

Don't know what you're talking about...
https://i.imgur.com/mZFa85Y.png
https://i.imgur.com/sGLqLmz.png
https://i.imgur.com/q75F97o.png

Why are these posts not sending notifications?

https://i.imgur.com/vRYJzoT.png

This is exactly what MEGA does. They host anything people put on there and they are encrypted with a password. Anything that people upload is Totally Anonymous. Don't you know how people are getting around this stuff? Probably not because you refuse to open your mind to possibilities of solving this rather annoying DMCA issue. You would rather talk to people in a condescending tone and just ignore everyone's pleas. Very professional behavior.

List of MEGA features:

1. Secure Global Access
   Your data is accessible anytime. Use a web browser or one of our powerful apps, available for all major platforms.

2. End-to-End Encryption
Unlike most other cloud storage providers, only you control who has access to your data. Not even MEGA can access it!

3. Secure Collaboration
   Share data and communicate with your contacts securely, and see their updates in real time.

4. Massive Storage Space
   Not only are we more secure than our major competitors, we also provide a more generous amount of free storage.

5. Live Encrypted Backup
   With our real-time file synchronisation and versioning features, your data is always safe and recoverable.

6. Public Source Code
   To enable independent verification of the correctness and integrity of our crypto model and its implementation, we publish the full source code of our client apps.

https://mega.nz/

Also when I was referring to notifications I was talking about the forums HOME page. If you would actually read what I posted you would know what I am talking about: https://forums.gta5-mods.com/

Because I explicitly stated on the HOME page:

"Plus as an added bonus this forum we are talking on doesn't even show up on the main forum page."

The notifications about new posts on the right side are not showing up for this forum. I guess I have to be very explicit since some people can't read.

EDIT: You know it is funny that the notifications start working right when I mention that. Great save moderators! At least it is working now. Before you say that I don't know what I am talking about, check the previous posts I wrote. I mentioned this way back, this isn't the first time I mentioned this forum bug:

" Since I have not violated their guidelines they cannot ban me for my views on the DMCAs. Instead they put us in a hidden thread on the forums that not only is not showing the new posts on the home page of the forums, but now it is their playground to insult and belittle us."

@Ze-Krush said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

@Dark0ne

     While I do agree that taking any mods down that will cause legal conflict is the correct option to do, I do think that that should apply to all content, not just radio station mods. And If you were to take all mods that possibly fall under risk of a DMCA takedown, that would count for all clothing mods that feature real life copyrighted brands, superhero mods, or anything to do with copyrighted content. 

The entire thought of community made mods (that aren't monetized in any way) being taken down for DMCA is complete bullshit, people have been modifying games to their desire for years, and it should stay that way. The community shouldn't have to suffer the same way that the developers do to acquire the proper licencing. That shit's expensive as fuck, even IF people on the site were to pay a fee directly to the copyright owner. It would most likely be denied because it doesn't gain any active exposure towards the base company.

Just think to how much it would cost, and how difficult it is to acquire a license to use the name "Kriss Vector" and the likeliness of the weapon in a mod. Companies normally don't want anything to do with "violent" video games anyways because of the risk it runs on them for news backlash.

@Dark0ne said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

If you created anything unique from this work, such as your own code or image assets for the mod, then you own the IP rights to those assets you specifically made yourself. If you did not, then no, you do not have any intellectual property. The time you spend organizing copyrighted music others have made into a mod does not make the music assets in the mod yours.

The same actions should be applied to all users that use "assets" that aren't theirs. '
(That's if we wanna make this debate fair)
But it isn't, if fair actions were used against all content that is at risk of a DMCA takedown then this site wouldn't exist. It would be a hub for people to create their own brands and ideas, vanilla reskins, and not much more.

@HarleyQuinnSquad Mans literally found this thread yesterday, but It's been one of the most headache inducing topics I've seen in a while. I normally don't speak on subjects like this that everybody will have mixed opinions on, and it's clearly in the hands of the owners of GTA5-mods.com and the copyright holders, not enough people in the community care to fight against it.

Another way that I see any radio station mods is as a personal mix, @krissboo makes dope mixes and if what he is doing isn't wrong in any way, then neither is what you, or anybody that creates these mods is.

Sorry to drag you into this, bruh had to make a point

No offense taken bro. I am glad that someone shares my views about this issue. Hear that @Dark0ne? I am not the only one saying this. But you are probably going to ignore it anyways Dark0ne. But yeah, they are trying to hide this thread as much as they can, for some reason. I have said the same things my bro, this will lead to ALL mods being taken down if GTA 5 mods doesn't stand up for their FAIR USE rights. This discussion is rather tiring but it has to be discussed, for the good of the modding community as a whole. But it is the one-sided garbage that makes me sick. The moderators here should be ashamed of themselves for acting in such an unprofessional way. Then they say I am rude? That is JUST CRAZY, all I can do is laugh at that idiocy.

@Dark0ne said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

Great. Well we all know where your loyalties lie, for yourself and not the modding community.

You talk about "the modding community" like you are the modding community. You are not the modding community. You're a part of it, for sure, and I'm very happy to say that I most definitely do not stand up for any elements of the modding community who are breaking the law. I'll happily stand up for members of the modding community who are not breaking the law and are not breaking our Terms of Service who are being treated wrong.

Also that last line proves you are an honest to god liberal

I'm pretty much straight in the center of British politics, which is probably just a bit left of US politics. Either way, I have no idea if being "liberal" is meant to be an insult or not? What I do know is that it's utterly irrelevant to this conversation.

I wasn't talking about banning Nazi images you dumb dumb.

No, I didn't claim you were. I claimed you were talking about calling users Nazis, which you implied that I had in your previous. And I had, yesterday. Because he was, actually, a Nazi.

I was talking about this bullcrap claim made by one of your supposed honest moderators that you conveniently overlooked:

by ikt:
"Okay, first of all, it's also kinda rude and predictable to call people Nazis."

He wasn't calling people Nazis, either. He was stating it's rude and predictable to do that, which someone did. It was removed by a moderator. Hence why it makes less sense to you.

This is all rather confusing and I've no idea why you brought up Nazis at all.

Because you claimed that I was being toxic and insulting everyone which was not the case. Also have you seen all of the posts about this issue? I am not the only one that feels this way. You just choose to ignore them and say its wrong and that I am the only one standing up against this. What is wrong about making mods for a game that I love to play? That is not breaking the law. As I said before these mods are ENCRYPTED. I thought I might as well bold it for you, since you ignored it the last time. Users who blatantly decrypt my mods are commiting piracy, because they are not using them as is in the game. Frankly I don't care what your political views are. I was just baffled that someone mentioned Nazis at all. Also if you removed the post that was talking about Nazis you should have removed ikt's post as well. That way there was no confusion in the first place. Another example of the one-sided moderators that make this community toxic. Moderators backing up other moderators but not backing up normal posts. Moderators that ignore posts and insult users who don't match their own opinions and beliefs. THAT is exactly what I was referring to when I said toxic. Plus as an added bonus this forum we are talking on doesn't even show up on the main forum page. No one knows this forum exists unless they outright search for it. Why are these posts not sending notifications? Do you not want to have the modding community show their real views?

@Dark0ne said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

Then why not upload them to a deep web site if you are so scared?

Because they're not my mods to reupload. Nor would I want to. These are mods other people make, so it's their job to upload them to "the deep web", not ours.

If you would actually look at the laws it states that fair use is determined by the courts and it could mean anything.

Show me where any laws state "fair use could mean anything". That's obviously not true.

It is true that fair use is a defense in court, but in order for you to use that defense, you need to go to court. This rule change is all about preventing us from going to court in the first place, because going to court to defend such a case is extremely expensive and I certainly don't want to go to court to defend other author's rights to redistribute copyrighted content without permission. I wholeheartedly disagree with the practice of using copyrighted work without permission, so I definitely wouldn't be defending it.

Also I have intellectual property rights as well. I put hard work and time into creating these Radio Station mods.

If you created anything unique from this work, such as your own code or image assets for the mod, then you own the IP rights to those assets you specifically made yourself. If you did not, then no, you do not have any intellectual property. The time you spend organizing copyrighted music others have made into a mod does not make the music assets in the mod yours.

I don't need you or anyone else telling me it is illegal when it is not.

I feel like you do, because redistributing copyrighted assets without permission is illegal.

Like I said before I am not committing piracy because these mods are encrypted. It is up to the user to decrypt the music, which is piracy. The user is not using the mod as it is intended to be used, that is not my problem. I am operating under the law, I have not commited piracy.

Piracy is clearly defined as "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work". If you're redistributing copyrighted music against the explicit license for that music then yes, you are breaking the law.

I don't see the logic here, I have tons of mods just like this on Mediafire, but they fight for our rights there.

Can you show me where MediaFire are standing up for your rights and defending copyrighted music being uploaded to their service on your behalf, please? MediaFire comply with DMCA takedown requests and will suspend users who are found to be breaching it.

What makes you guys so special that you won't stand up for what is right.

It's not right, it's illegal. That's why I won't stand up for it.

Oh yeah and talking about toxic insults, I wasn't the one that called someone a Nazi, just saying.

I called an openly neo-Nazi user, with a neo-Nazi image as an avatar, a Nazi and banned them from 5Mods. If you disagree with that, honestly, why are you here? Please just leave.

Great. Well we all know where your loyalties lie, for yourself and not the modding community. Always ready and willing to make excuses for your behavior and actions. Also that last line proves you are an honest to god liberal. I wasn't talking about banning Nazi images you dumb dumb. I was talking about this bullcrap claim made by one of your supposed honest moderators that you conveniently overlooked:

by ikt:
"Okay, first of all, it's also kinda rude and predictable to call people Nazis."

Who the F called someone a Nazi? If you check the posts before this ridiculous comment you can see that no one called anyone a Nazi. Are your moderators high or something? Because this type of behavior is ridiculous and downight baffling. Instead of discussing the issue at hand ikt decided to throw in something that wasn't even being discussed in the first place. Then you guys tell us that we are wrong for our views, get out of here.

@Dark0ne said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

@HarleyQuinnSquad said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

The only stupid mess that has surfaced is the toxicity of this modding community as a whole.

Us telling you we're going to follow the law and abide by the law is not "toxic". You throwing insults around is, however, toxic. So the irony is not wasted on me.

You keep throwing around the phrase "fair use", but fair use does not apply to radio station mods using copyrighted music without permission. It does not mean, "use what you want without permission and, as long as it's free, you can't be punished". That's not fair use. Fair use is a right granted to use copyrighted work for specific purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship. Essentially, it's designed to allow reviewers to review copyrighted work (e.g. a film or music review) or to provide for parodies that mimic the original, copyrighted work.

None of the fair usage reasons provided above cover radio station mods for GTA V. The mere fact you release the mods for free does NOT mean it's legal and OK.

To put it another way, what you're doing, ripping music from the internet or physical media and putting it in your mod, is the same as using another mod author's car model or textures without permission in your mod and uploading it to 5Mods. That's against the rules on 5Mods because it's illegal and extremely rude to the mod author. It's copyright infringement. If someone makes an original work, from scratch, it's their work. It's automatically copyrighted to them and, until such time as they license it out in an open way for others to use and upload in their mods, it remains strictly theirs, and theirs alone, to distribute. Even if they upload it to 5Mods (or anywhere else on the internet), that doesn't suddenly make it open source and free to distribute in other mods without permission. The mere fact you can download and use the mod for free, and the assets within the mod are open and available, does not rescind the copyright and rights that the author has over their work. The exact same applies to music creators.

Simply put; just because you have it on your PC does NOT make it yours to redistribute it as you please. Nor does buying the music.

Pretty much all commercial music is licensed to you in such a way that you are not allowed to redistribute it without the prior permission of the copyright holder. People are welcome to upload music that is NOT copyrighted or that is released under a creative commons license or similar on 5Mods. This rule does not apply to such music.

This rule update on 5Mods and its enforcement is to prevent illegal mods from being shared on the site, specifically to protect the site from legal repercussions. If you want to share radio mods, you are welcome to do so on your own website, where you will be directly responsible for hosting it. It's quite possible nothing will happen to you, but we simply cannot and will not take that risk.

Then why not upload them to a deep web site if you are so scared? That way you are completely anonymous. There are many things that you guys could do to help the modding community. Just telling us it is illegal isn't going to help anything. If you would actually look at the laws it states that fair use is determined by the courts and it could mean anything. Also I have intellectual property rights as well. I put hard work and time into creating these Radio Station mods. I don't need you or anyone else telling me it is illegal when it is not. I have bought the IP for GTA V and I have the right to mod my game as I see fit. It is not against the law to mod a game. Like I said before I am not committing piracy because these mods are encrypted. It is up to the user to decrypt the music, which is piracy. The user is not using the mod as it is intended to be used, that is not my problem. I am operating under the law, I have not commited piracy. I don't see the logic here, I have tons of mods just like this on Mediafire, but they fight for our rights there. What makes you guys so special that you won't stand up for what is right. Like I said, if you are taken down, go to the deep web. Many other modding sites have in the past that were taken down. In reality, the internet cannot be contained or regulated. I doubt you guys will get any backlash from hosting radio station mods, for christ sake this is getting ridiculous.

Oh yeah and talking about toxic insults, I wasn't the one that called someone a Nazi, just saying.

@Dark0ne said in Discussions regarding "Radio station mods, copyrighted music and moderation":

What a stupid mess this thread has become.

Free-speech doesn't apply to private entities. The first amendment directly relates to the government trying to silence its citizens, not citizens telling other citizens to STFU on their own property.

Also, from our Terms of Service that you agreed to when you registered here:

However, GTA5-Mods.com has the right to monitor or moderate User Content, in our sole discretion, and to enforce our or a third party’s intellectual property rights in any User Content. GTA5-Mods.com reserves the right to discard or remove User Content from the Site in its sole discretion and without any liability whatsoever.

So when you registered on this site and post anything on it, you give us the right (among others) to remove any content you post. You agreed to these terms. So let's grow up and move on from this pathetic discussion about what we can and cannot do.

The only stupid mess that has surfaced is the toxicity of this modding community as a whole. We shouldn't even be discussing this, it should be a no-brainer to protect our fair use rights and support the modding community. But I guess that will never happen. Reminds me of this video:

"Ah hell, man, they got their nose in everything. Can't shit without the Dark0ne and Jitnaught taking an interest. To hell with them." Big Smoke 1992